Hi, my name is Piper Harris, and welcome to Rebuild Your Ruins, a Piper Harris coaching podcast. On today's episode, we'll be talking about listening. We'll discuss how cognitive bias, judgment, and much more are crippling your ability to listen and ruin your relationships. I'm going to be offering you some tips to help reverse your inattention and be all ears for those in your life. Well, hey everybody. Welcome to 2022. I can't believe the year is already here. Still a few days in it. So I think I have my feet under me for the new year. How about you? I hope you're doing well. You know, I thought about doing the stereotypical let's do a new year's resolution podcast, which if you've been following me for any time at all, I hate them. Um, but I thought I mixed up a little bit this year. So rather than talking about our goals for the upcoming year, I'm gonna start talking about the things that we can do to shift our not so great behaviors to ensure that we have a greater fulfilling um year in 2022. So today we're gonna dig in. It's you're not listening. You're not listening. So the other day um I was laughing. I actually was talking to a friend of mine who's a therapist, and I was teasing with her saying that um I was speaking with my husband, and I was talking to him, and he he didn't listen. I mean, like, he just didn't listen. And I got so mad at him and basically felt like through a tantrum and was like, you're not listening to me. You're not in it. And then I said to him, You don't even listen like a therapist should listen. And he kind of looked at me like, yeah, no kidding. Well, he and I actually have wonderful communication. It was just an off day for him, and I have those days as well. But it really got me thinking about listening in general, and that in the past year, I can recall quite a few different situations where I absolutely did not feel like I was listened to. I wasn't listened to, and it just made me feel terrible. And I'm willing to bet that that makes when people don't listen to you, it makes you feel pretty crappy as well. Um, but here's the thing too, we are all very capable, aren't we, of pointing out uh what other people are doing wrong. But I can also tell you, you're not a good listener either, because I'm not always as well. So, you know, when I was thinking about being mad at my husband because he wasn't listening to me like a therapist would, well, you know, I think that maybe I'm a little bit more in tune to that because of training, because of my job, we are trained to listen because listening is a skill and it's a skill that you really have to practice. So I was taught to listen, and it's more than just listening with my ears. I can tell you that I become even more adept at listening since losing my hearing almost two years ago in my right ear. I got some hearing back, so it's not completely deaf. I'm hard of hearing in that ear. Um, but I had to become even more in tune with hearing with my other ear. So that hearing also came into play with, or that listening came into play with also watching. So I was watching people's verbal um, you know, encouragers or their um nonverbal indicators that they were engaged, that they're engaged with listening, or that I am listening to them effectively. So I want to talk about this. You know, people get stuck um not listening. And it's interesting, the the research that I did for today's episode is when we get stuck not listening, it's actually part of a cognitive bias. So here's the thing: what our brain does is that it wants to make things easy. So it attaches patterns to um all kinds of things, people, um, scenarios, because our brain doesn't want to filter in all of this information. So rather, it's gonna put together these patterns and it's just going to say, this is what the situation is, this is what the person's going to say. Um, I loved learning about all of this. If you want a great book, it's gonna take you some time to read it, but it's thinking um thinking fast and slow, and it's by um Dr. Danny Canneman. Um so it's a wonderful book, but it talks about our brain and that our brain really does hijack us so many times when you might be caught in a situation where you're like, I did not hear anything that person said. Or you assume that you understood what they were gonna come to the end about, and you notice on their face they're angry because you're talking over them. You interrupted them because you think you know what the answer is. And unfortunately, that's your brain. That's your brain totally hijacking you through this cognitive bias. So, what it does is it short circuits our ability to listen effectively. So, for example, um, I had bought some products from someone that I've known for quite some time, but I actually haven't seen her in about 10 years. And so I talked to her about these products. I wanted to support someone so she could get the commissions. And what I found that was so frustrating with me for me was that she didn't listen at all. She had this wrote script and she kept talking over me. And I I know she didn't mean to do it, but what it made me feel like is it made me feel like, hey, hold on a second. You you obviously don't know who I am. This is a bit offensive. And it just was kind of like this talking over thing. And I was so frustrated with her. And I just thought, why the heck did I call her and offer her this opportunity? Because I do see that as an opportunity. Hey, you're gonna make money off me. Let's have a discussion about this. But rather, she just talked over me and didn't ask me questions. You know, part of listening to someone is engaging in asking questions, not assuming everything. So the more I started thinking about this situation and how much she bugged me, I thought, okay, Piper, let's let's shift the perspective here and consider some things. So what really stood out to me is I haven't talked to her in 10 years. So that cognitive bias of, oh, I know who Piper is, was set 10 years prior. I'm not the same person. I don't do the same things, I don't have the same education, but her brain hijacked her ability to effectively listen and speak to me because it just made those assumptions. It moved past what was actually going on, which was should have been a conversation between two people, you know, getting to know each other better. And it should have been a discussion. It should have had this really great, you know, give and take. But her brain hijacked her based on saying, nope, we know who she is, just talk past it and just get through with this. So a lot of times that happens with a lot of us. It really does happen to a lot of us. And it does get very frustrating, doesn't it, when people aren't listening and you want to shake them by the shoulders and say, you're not listening to me. Well, here's another one. Here's another one that I think a lot of us have probably faced, and probably, you know, we're on the tail end of all of the holidays. It's our family and our friends. So, how many times have you been in a situation where you're having a conversation with a family member or with a close friend, and all of a sudden they're like zoned out, and you know nobody's home. They're not listening to anything that's going on. And or they might, you know, interrupt you because they just assume they know where you're going in in that conversation. Well, they had made a judgment, hadn't they? That was part of that cognitive bias. Their brain hijacked them and said, Nope, I know exactly what they're saying, or oh, here she goes again, whatever it is. But what happens is their brain again hijacks them, but then you're left feeling like, what the heck? I thought this person really cared about me. You know, it's really interesting that when I was researching about what we actually listen to in conversations, we actually only pay attention. Our brain filters out so much, we only actually pay attention to about 25 to 50 percent. That's not a lot. So that also means that when you're talking, people are only listening to you 25 to 50 percent of the time. So, you know, it's it's kind of hard. How does that feel if if you can't effectively listen? Nobody's effectively listening to you too, because again, listening is a skill. It's a skill and it has to be practiced. And just like I said, listening is not just um through the words that someone's speaking to you. Like, for example, that friend that I had come to to buy some of her products, I was silent because I was angry. I was like, well, I'm gonna do the thumper rule. If you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all. But I was irritated, but she should have listened to the silence because silence can oftentimes clue you into wait a second, okay, I'm not actually listening. I'm I'm I'm just kind of I'm not in this situation. I'm talking over them or whatever. Listening is also not just through words, it's through the facial expressions of the speaker, um, or even through the body language. You know, like with my husband, when I got so frustrated with him the other day, is he had no affect on his face. I mean, I couldn't tell if he was zoned out, I couldn't tell if he was engaged in the conversation, I couldn't tell if he was annoyed. I had no idea what was going on. None because his face did not express to me that he was engaged in listening. Another way for you to listen is to pay attention to body language. I mean, listen, if if you're talking at someone and you want to know if they're listening to you, pay attention to what their body is doing. Are they looking away? Are they moving their body away from you? Are they crossing their arms? That should clue you into, oh, wait a second. This is not active listening. And that's what I want to talk about today. Active listening. Listening is a skill. That means you have to actively engage in it. Now, not all of us are going to 100% of the time actively engage in listening. In fact, part of our brain says we can't. We get um cognitive exhaustion, if you can if you can say that, in the sense that if we've um done completed, excuse me, a lot of cognitive tasks during the day, or say you're in the middle of something and somebody you know comes and asks you a question, cognitively speaking, we're fatigued. And so many times our brain just turns it off. That's where that 25 to 50 percent is only heard because we're tired of with it. But we can choose to actively listen. So, you know, what um you're listening for is how what the what the words they're saying and and what their body is expressing, expressing or their face is expressing. Because listen, when we're not listening, it tells the speaker a few things. It tells them you're not important, it tells them I already know everything, and also really tells I don't want to get to know you. Because listening is a very intimate act. And when people don't feel heard, it's very painful. I mean, that's why there's so much literature around therapy in that it is so, so healing for every human being because most of the time people just want to be heard. You know, it reminds me, it's so funny. Um, last week I went to a new antique shop. I love going and finding kind of trick kits and all kinds of fun stuff. So I had my last day before my new semester started at school, and I thought, well, I'm gonna go hit this new place. And I was walking along, and there's this older woman, she was probably in maybe early 80s, and she was standing there looking at some things, and she noticed that I had some vases in my cart, and she commented how pretty they were. And I said, Well, thank you, and told her a little bit about what I was thinking about doing um in the new year with my home. So she just started talking away, and um, I wasn't annoyed by it at all. I had all the time in the world, and I could tell she just wanted someone to listen. So I invited her to walk along the aisles with me. She shared with me that she many times goes to this large antique mall to walk to get her exercise. And I learned all about her. I learned about how her daughter moved over to the West Coast. I told her that's where I'm originally from. Um, we just, it was just a really fun conversation. And so eventually, it was probably a good 15, 20 minutes later. She kind of caught herself and she said, Oh my gosh, I'm just, I'm, I'm so sorry. I've just rattled on and or she said prattled on. It was so cute. And uh, I'm just so sorry. I'm like, no, not at all. I've enjoyed our conversation. And and she said, You're just so good at listening. And I said, Well, thank you. She goes, I just, I don't know. She's like, You're just so good at it. And I just kind of giggled at it at her. And she said, Honey, what do you do for a living? And I said, Well, it's funny that you say that. I listen. And so it was just a really great conversation. And she immensely blessed me because she said, You're absolutely supposed to be a therapist. But it was a blessing for me to hear that from someone who just wanted to be heard. And I think that's what's so important about learning to engage in active listening, is that it blesses others. It truly is, and people can feel very heard and healed in just a few moments of listening. So how are you going to tell if you're actually not a good listener? That's the first question. Because we really need to start being honest about ourselves, don't we? This isn't about us recalling all the bad listeners in our life. Although, as I was preparing for this episode, boy, I tell you, I was thinking about all kinds of them. But this is about us rebuilding our ruins, right? So you might not be a good listener. You might be listening for the wrong reasons. I know a lot of times with the women I've worked with is that they overly listen because they're in whole, it's it's a form of receiving more love. Does that make sense? So they almost use it as manipulation. They don't think of it that way, but that's what it's used as. So you have to really consider who you are as a listener and why you're listening or choosing to listen or choosing not to listen. So, how do you tell if you're not a good listener? Well, do people come to you with questions? Do they come to you with meaty questions, those heartfelt, gosh, I don't know what to do in this situation kind of questions? Do they come to you with those questions? And if they do, do they come back? If they don't come back, you probably need to consider what you chose to say. Were you listening to them? Do people seem to just disappear in your life? I can tell you that oftentimes when um we're not good listeners, you'll start noticing that people don't call so often. They don't frequent your home so often. They don't want to go out and grab dinner with you. And all of a sudden, they start disappearing. Excuse me, I had to get a drink of water. So another question is do you interrupt a lot or do you dominate conversations, like turning the focus to yourself? Now, this is a hard one, isn't it? Because we have to be really uh self-reflective on this one. Because most times if we're dominating conversations or we're interrupting a lot, we're lots of times unaware of this behavior. And again, it's getting to the root of why are you interrupting and why are you dominating conversations? I can tell you that um in previous years when my anxiety would be really, really high, especially in large groups, I would just talk away and people would say, Oh my gosh, she's so extroverted. I would dominate the conversations because I felt like it, and I did it in a way of um keeping the anxiety off of me, is that makes sense? I dominated conversations because I thought, well, if I dominate this conversation, then I don't have to think about how anxious I am in this situation. Um, and then there's the interruptions. Um, a lot of people that interrupt or that are constant interrupters, number one, they don't know how to listen. And number two, typically they're standing in a place of judgment. They're gonna interrupt you because they know what they're gonna say or you're gonna say they're they've been practicing what they're gonna tell you, and they just can't help but interrupt and give you their wisdom. So consider, you know, when you're in a conversation, focus on, you know, did you interrupt? Did you dominate the conversation? Did you turn the focus on you? I can tell you in you know, conversations in the past what is so difficult, like my husband, for an example, is I'm sharing something with him of a concern, a frustration, whatever it is, and he brings a similar situation in his life to compare, which typically that's okay. But if I'm in a place where I'm really hurting, I feel like he shifted the focus rather than listening. I feel like he shifted the focus to, oh yeah, I totally get it. I went through this. It's like, no, we're two different humans, just listen. So if you're shifting the focus, that is telling you, telling you, hey, you can show a comparison, but then stop and allow the individual to continue to talk. So another way, how to tell if you're not a good listener is you need to ask a close friend or family member. Yeah, pretty scary, isn't it? And when you ask them, hey, am I a good listener? You need to receive it without becoming defensive. This is about listening, right? So you need to ask, ask them without getting defensive, you know. And what's interesting is you're probably listening in, you're like, no, I'm a I'm a really good listener. I'm totally fine. Well, again, don't forget that the research that shows that we only listen to 25 to 50% of the time. That's not fantastic. So you really aren't a good listener. All of us aren't at some time or another. But what's really interesting is that you're more than likely perceiving yourself as being a better listener than you are. And this is called the illusion of validity bias. Okay. So this means that we all have this tendency to be way overconfident in how accurate our judgments are of ourselves or even of others. So it's the illusion of, oh no, I'm totally valid in this, I'm totally a good listener, or oh, I gave them everything they needed. So this is another one of those biases that our our brain, we all of us have this. We have this illusion that we absolutely know how we're perceived and how we judge others. So um, another example of like this illusion bias, how that can play in, is I had a recent conversation with someone at church and I was met with a statement, I know the Bible, you know psychology. And it was such an interesting statement. I sat there and I thought, okay, I okay. I mean, I was a little offended because the illusional bias there was more like the individual saw this as very black and white. To me, I heard you have a lesser knowledge of the Bible, therefore you cannot speak on it. I have a lesser understanding of psychology, so I'll just defer to you on that. Here's the thing that is an illusion of validity. That is a perception that your judgment is correct, and it hurt. It hurt. So, with this example, too, the other thing that we're uh faced with when we're trying to recognize if we're not a good listener is we have to be aware of ego dynamics. Okay. Our egos play an enormous part with our our our perceptions of how we listen. Um, in our egos, you know, they get in the way. They just do. And what's really interesting when it comes to our ego, we have to be very aware of how we're feeling in that particular situation. So are you feeling confident, overly confident, which again, the illusion of um validity, um, or are you feeling off-kilter? Are you feeling unsure? All of those things can shift our ego into high drive. And it's going to make those statements that come out of our mouths much more um painful to the individuals that we're having a conversation with. So I wanted to dig into how we can listen better as one of the bricks to rebuilding your ruins. So you've noticed that the podcast changed a little bit this year. And it's it's not a huge change. It's just in the sense that we're talking more about rebuilding our ruins. If you've been following me for a while, I've talked about poema, I've talked about rebuilding our ruins, and these are all those things that you can find in scripture. Um, my personal faith statement is I believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. I do. I believe in the Holy Trinity, God our Father, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. I believe that Jesus Christ came to earth, incarnate in God, came in flesh, lived a perfect life here on earth, and ultimately he sacrificed his life so that all could live in eternity in heaven with him. Um, so when I thought about starting in 2022, I shifted from just the Piper Harris coaching podcast to Rebuild Your Ruins because That's what I work with my clients on is I want you to rebuild your ruins. And this is something out of my favorite verses out of Isaiah 61, verses one through four. So, anyway, today I want us to talk about this is one of our bricks to rebuilding your ruins. Because listen, even if you're a great listener, like I think I'm a great listener, I'm not always a great listener. I'm not. So for 2022, our first brick that we're gonna lay with your rebuilding of your ruins is listening. So this is what we're gonna do. Try active listening. It's hard. You're actively focusing on the speaker, and it has to be practiced. So here are the steps that you can take in 2022. Pull out your paper and your um pen and write these things down. So, number one, you're gonna pay attention. You're going to look at the speaker. So put aside all your distracting thoughts or your distractions like your phone. It's kind of funny. I'm telling these stories about my husband not listening to me. Well, the other day he was talking to me and I had my phone on my face and he got so mad and goes, I hate when you do that. He was so annoyed. And I get it. I get it. I should have put down that phone. I was just engaged in something, but he's more important. So put aside your distracting thoughts and those distractions like your phone. And distracting thoughts can very much be like, oh, I forgot to pull out food for dinner tonight, or it could be, oh, I have to change the laundry, whatever it is. You have to focus and pay attention on that speaker. So put aside distracting thoughts and distractions. Number two, don't wait to speak. Okay. Don't lie and wait for them to take a breath so you can jump in. Many times people are sitting there thinking about other things as a rebuttal to whatever the speaker is saying. That's not cool. That's not cool. Part of active listening is a mindset. It's a mindset of giving to someone else. So if you're constantly thinking about what you'll say next, you're only thinking about what you'll be getting, right? It's not about this mindset of I want to give to this person because I know listening is very healing. All you're thinking about is what am I going to get? Okay. So number three with that is you've got to listen to the body language in silence, right? Listen, if you could see me, I have air quotes. We talked about this a little bit. Listen to what's not being said. Oftentimes when I'm in sessions with clients, they don't have words. And so my job is to listen to what I'm seeing. So I might notice a tremor like on their shoulders, where I know that they're fighting emotion and they're trying to not let it release. It might be that I see them start hugging themselves. So I'm recognizing that they're feeling fearful or insecure about something. Or it could be that I'm noticing that someone's gripping their hands. So I've said something that's really made them angry. So active listening is also paying attention to and listening to body language and silence. Gotta pay attention to that. So the next thing you have to do with active listening is that you need to show that you're listening. Show that you're listening. So when my husband was talking to him the other day, he didn't show anything. Nothing. I had no idea what was going on. So here are some things that you can do to show that you're listening. Nod occasionally, smile, and use other facial expressions. Make sure that when you're listening to the speaker, that your posture tells a speaker that you're absolutely engaged. You know, something that we learn in our first classes and in counseling is something called SOLOR, the acronym SOLAR, S-O-L-E-R. And it stands for sit upright, open your posture, your arms and your legs are uncrossed, lean forward so they know you're actively engaged, maintain eye contact, and relax. Relax and allow that speaker to feel that you are actively listening. You got to show them. So the last way that you can show that you're listening is encourage the speaker with small verbal responses like, mm-hmm, yeah, go ahead. Okay. So you're you're not really interrupting them, and don't do it too much because then they do feel like they're being interrupted. But these are just encouraging the speaker that, hey, I am here with you. I am paying attention. And this is another way that you can show them that you're actively listening. Another way that we can practice active listening is by providing feedback. Now, this can be super duper clump clunky in the beginning. In fact, um, I know that we practice this in our skills classes a lot of times. And I can tell individuals that have been in the field working, and I can tell individuals that have decided that counseling is like this new frontier that they've decided to leave technology maybe for counseling. So it feels very clunky to them. So, what I mean by providing feedback is that it's not parroting the speaker, it's not mimicking exactly what they say. That's not the case. But what it is, is it's really allowing the speaker to know I am listening by providing feedback. So it might be something like they're they're talking about uh a work scenario and they're really frustrated. Bob stole their stapler off the desk. Wasn't that the guy's name in um office space, Bob or something? But anyway, just say that's what's taking taking place. So what you could say to provide feedback after they've kind of paused for a while and you know they're done, you can say, Oh, okay, so you're saying that Bob, you're upset because Bob stole your stapler off your desk. And so that encourages them to keep going or to um clarify what they were saying. Another way for you to provide feedback is by asking clarifying questions. So it would be something like, Well, is that what you meant? You were upset with Bob for stealing your your stapler. I I could be upset. Maybe you think it's funny. So you're asking clarifying questions. Another way for you to provide feedback is to summarize what they're saying. And again, this is not parroting exactly word for word what they're saying, but saying something like, Wow, I hear how upset you are, and I can actually see that it's making you feel pretty upset. So you're validating what they're speaking and what you're seeing in them, and you're providing feedback with them on that. You know, it's interesting. Then I work this with couples that come to me that are having communication issues, and we do this a lot, and it's the speaker-listener technique. Uh, it's a wonderful technique. So if you're struggling with your spouse, um, this is a great technique for y'all to practice together, but you do have to have some ground rules. You do have to have some ground rules. You can't just tell your spouse you're gonna listen. Um, so what it is really is one spouse does the speaking. They are the speaker. The other spouse is the listener. They are not allowed, excuse me, to speak. Only are they allowed to speak if they're paraphrasing what their spouse is saying. And then they say to the spouse, Did I get that right? Oftentimes, when we ask, Did I get that right? We didn't get it right at all. So what happens is that the first spouse, the speaker, continues to say the things until the listener paraphrases 100% accurately. Then the spouses switch roles. So it's really an effective communication technique and something that you can practice with your spouse, you can practice it with your kids. Um, it's just a really wonderful effective technique. You could even do this in a boardroom if you've got, you know, your your beginning of the year meetings to set up your year. This is a really great effective team building technique so people can learn to listen, actively listen. So the next thing you can do to actively listen is stop judging. Y'all gotta stop judging, okay? And I am I am not free of the judgment either. This is not me pointing the speck in your eye and ignoring the log in mine. Um, interruptions, when you're an interrupter, is um a reflection of your judgment of the speaker. It just is. Whether it be that you don't agree with them, you're annoyed, you're busy, or you think you can see the whole the whole picture before the speaker has finished speaking, you're in a position of judgment. You're you're judging them. And you are most assuredly wrong. Okay, so we've got to stop judging. And again, this is where my confirmation bias kicks in. So not only do we have the illusion of validity bias, but now we've got confirmation bias. So this is where we receive information and to process it, our brain says, uh, I'm just gonna fit this into the pattern I already have, this pre-existing narrative about this person or this scenario. So, with that friend that talked over me, I hadn't seen her, like I said, in 10 years. And I believe her pre-existing memories of who Piper was clouded her ability to consider who Piper is. So I don't think she was doing it to be mean. I just think that her confirmation bias kicked in. Now, there are individuals, and we all have them in our lives, where they're just judgmental. They just are. And we just have those humans in our life. And so what you have to recognize is if you're dealing with an individual that's hyper judgmental, hyper-critical of you, you're not going to gain the listening that you want from this person. So you have to make the decision am I going to talk to this person knowing I'll I won't be heard and that might hurt me? Or am I going to choose to speak to someone that's actually going to listen to me? Because we all do have those individuals in our life that are judgmental and critical, and they just really can't see past themselves. So the other thing with um listening attentively and actively is that you've got to know your emotions and you've got to respond appropriately. So most of us think that we're on top of how we're feeling or expressing ourselves. And that's not the case. In fact, most of the time we think we're adequately expressing our emotions through our facial expressions, and we're not at all. Like my husband, there was nothing on his face when he said he was listening to me. And he's like, No, I was listening. And he replayed back what I said. So he thought he was showing me he was listening, but there was nothing there to confirm it to me as a speaker. So you've got to know your emotion or your lack of emotion and respond appropriately. So if you're exhausted and someone's speaking to you, and you just you can't seem to focus, you just need some quiet time. The best response and the most appropriate response that individual is, hey, I'm sorry. I know you would love for me to engage in this, but unfortunately, right now, I'm exhausted, I'm stressed, I'm I'm working on this one thing. I just I need to table this just for a moment so that I can really focus and listen to you. Some people might not like that, right? They might not like being stopped because we also have those speakers in our lives that they just dominate conversation 24-7. So you to say to them, no, I'm not gonna listen, it's a tough one, tough one for them to take. But you can only control you. You can't change how anybody else listens or speaks. So you need to be aware of your emotions, how you're feeling, and respond appropriately. So those are some of the tips and techniques. You're probably not listening real well. And I'm willing to bet that if you engage in some of these tips and understand some of your pitfalls, you can use this in 2022 and see your relationships start to flourish even more. Like I said, you can use this with your spouses, your friends, your children, your co-workers. But again, you need to recognize why are you going to be listening actively? Are you trying to get something from someone? Active listening is really about blessing others, giving to others. Ultimately, when you have a great dialogue from some someone with someone, it's reciprocal. It is a blessing to both of you. But active listening is a mindset. Remember, it's shifting our mindset. This is not about what you want to get in return. This is about you giving to another. So I hope this was helpful for you today. So if you're not listening or the people in your life are not listening, well, there's some tips that you know you can implement in your life. So pay attention, look at the speaker, show that you're listening to that person, nod occasionally, smile, the solar acronym I shared with you. Provide feedback to the speaker, stop judging, and know your emotions and respond appropriately. That brings us to the end of this episode. Thanks so much for joining me. I hope you learned some things that equip you to continue in rebuilding the ruins of your life. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review me on your podcast listening platform and share with your friends and family. As always, thanks so much for listening to Rebuild Your Ruins, a Piper Harris coaching podcast. I'll talk to you next time.