We can get better, get better. Feels like a lot like settling. Okay. Yep. You don't want to hear me sing. You don't want to hear me sing. That is one of my favorite songs. I don't know about you, but it makes me want to get up and dance. So uh if you've never heard of it, head on over to Spotify. The band is called Ripe, R-I-P-E, and this song is called Settling. So there's just something about this guy's voice and the beat of it. Every time it comes on, I want to dance. In fact, this morning it came on when I was on the treadmill and uh about broke my neck because I am not one of those great videos you see where people can dance to a beat on a treadmill. That is that that's not me. But you know what's funny, and I'm I'm gonna probably age myself right now. It reminds me of a song by Paul Simon. Anyone else? Um, the one every time it comes on, it's a um Call Me Al, I think that's what it is. Uh our I am Al by Paul Simon. Do y'all know what I'm talking about? You younger crowd have probably have no idea, but there's just something about the beat, it reminds me of that song. And uh I just I really love it. But we're not talking about my music taste today, nor are we going to talk about my unsettling singing voice. That is not a blessing the Lord gave me. Um, but what I love about this song by Ripe is that um they really hit the nail on the head when you listen to the lyrics. And often when um I talk with people, they come to me absolutely miserable, miserable, y'all, in the relationships, whether they're the intimate ones or not. So I'm talking about uh with children, with parents, with their boss, but especially with the the intimate ones, I see, you know, obviously high, high levels of emotionality. But inevitably, when they come into my office and they're telling me things are so awful, I start to ask them questions because I I need to understand, right? And sometimes I hear holes. So I might ask them, like, well, have you approached them with your concern? I mean, you're thinking, well, of course they have Piper. That seems like a dumb question. But no, honestly, we get so wrapped up in our emotions, often we don't even share what's going on with us with the person we're struggling with. And for today's talk, we're really going to be talking about intimate relationships, okay? Married or in, you know, cohabitation, whatever you want to call it. So then I might ask them, okay, well, do they know what you're facing outside of your relationship? So sometimes um I'll have men come in and they'll do some work with me and they are at wit's end at work. Their boss is just riding them like a rented mule. They're they're just not handling stress. Things are tight at home, the kids are getting along. And so he's withdrawing. And I'll say to him, Well, have you explained to your wife what's going on? Have you had a dialogue? Oh, no, no. Or sometimes I'll ask him, have you told them how that makes you feel? Like if somebody responds in the way that they're spawning, have you taken a breath and say, hey, that really hurts? And I'd love to find time to talk with you more about this. But often, again, we're so highly emotional when we get into these relationships. Uh the answer is no, no, and no to all of my questions because it because our our brain just shuts down. And you know, too often in our relationships, we get absolutely burned out on the constant fighting. Anyone else? Anyone else recognize that they're in the same fight over and over and over again? And then uh, some of my couples that come in, they're settled. I mean, y'all, they walk in my office, one person's on one end of the couch, the other person's on the other end of the couch, and it is very cold in my office. And I have a cute office, I make it very warm, but you can feel there is a void between them. And so oftentimes we all fall into this dance of sorts where one may, you know, one partner may nag someone, the other might withdraw. That's pretty typical that I see, um, men and women. Or we might see where one screams and demeans and the other one absolutely freezes. And so what happens is they're stuck on this hamster wheel effect that takes place and everyone just sits doing the same thing over and over and over again. And didn't um Einstein say it the best when he said insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. So, why do we do that in our relationships? I don't know. I once read that when we do that, it's like being in a free fall, and we don't even remember how to pull the zip cord to save our life, or in this case, your relationship. You're on this hamster wheel or this free fall, the emotions are going so high that your brain turns off and it's like pull the zip cord, pull the you're gonna break your neck, pull the zip cord, but we can't. So when I work with couples and individuals, I have two base foundations that I always start with, always start with. So the first is I work on a brain-body connection, and that's something that we'll discuss in another podcast. It's hard to kind of do in a podcast. I'm trying to figure out how to do that, but it's really bringing in polyvagal activation or theory and um vagal activation, all of these things. I really start off when people come to my office, whether it's individual or in couples, saying to them, okay, we've got to get you attuned to your physical body because most of us, oof, we don't have it. And in fact, um, next week I'll be doing a short demonstration of some vagal activation with a local group here in North Georgia, um, because this really is key. This is really key is that when we're flooded or we're highly emotional, uh, we're not going to get anywhere in a relationship. So always, always, always I start. This is my base foundation with every single person that comes into my office. We start with a let's work on the brain-body connection and really help you to slow the response, the reactivity. Um, and then the second part that I always go into with individuals and couples is asking about attachment stylings. And then from there, it's just we build, right? Then we go into my CBT, which if you've been listening to me for a while, this is my love. I love CBT, cognitive behavioral therapy. Essentially, your um emotions and behaviors are all attached to your thinking. But nobody's gonna be able to think about their thinking if they can't engage their parasympathetic response or that brain-body connection that calms us down, or if they don't understand this attachment styling, and I'll explain that to you. So that's kind of my base foundation. And I bring in all kinds of other tools, whatever my clients need, I'm gonna do that. So today, though, I really want to take a close look at attachment theory and stylings because again, this is so key with all of my work, and frankly, it's been key in my life to really allow me to see uh relational patterns and behaviors. So, what I try to do, um, or what I want to try to do today is help you to understand your unique styling and understanding that this creates an unconscious drive to attach a curtain way um away in relationships. So I'll I'll get there. I know you're like, well, what is it, Piper? But what I want to first say before we dive into this is the great news is that we don't always have to have the attachment styling that we currently have, and that we can create new ones. That's why I love counseling so much. In fact, for a long time I had a uh what do you call it, a thing on my phone that I made, like a little wallpaper. That's the word I'm looking for, and it said arbiter of hope. That's why I love counseling, because really you come to us, you're broken, you're in crisis, you're fearful, all of those things. But I'm telling you, if you're a good therapist, the first thing that we do for all of our clients is we hold the space for hope. When you don't, you're not able to hold the space, man, we hold it for you. And I am telling you, I have seen people heal their attachment stylings and live an abundant life in their relationships. Okay. So let's do a basic overview of attachment theory. So it was originally created by John Bowby. Um, he studied uh as a psychoanalyst. So think Freud. But Bowby back in the day, he was raised by a very affluent uh family. He was shipped off to um boarding school, he had no relationship with the parents. And I imagine, I imagine he was feeling a little like, okay, uh, do mom and dad love me or are they just shipping me off? Right. So rather than follow the line of psychoanalytic theory, which is really driven on, you know, hidden sexual desires and competing forces within the id, ego, superego, all of that, all the stuff that Freud kind of came up with. He said, you know what? I don't, I don't think this is what I'm seeing with with myself. And he actually went and worked in a um hospital. I'm trying to remember the story correctly. And he was watching these children that were just a mess, y'all. They had been abandoned by their parents and they had been given food and shelter. I mean, they're in this special home, but they were a mess. They what we hear now, failure to thrive. And he's saying, Okay, well, I these kids have been given everything. I don't think Freud has it right. There's something else going on. So he really started studying these kids that had been abandoned by their parents and you know, watching them. Some would fight with such anger and rage, and then some would just completely withdraw. And so eventually, what he learned from all his study, and again, this is a quick synopsis. I really suggest you read about him. It's fascinating stuff. But eventually, what he learned is that all human beings um begin to understand how to attach to people, so how to relate to people in their earliest years of living. And what he learned is that relational attachment or that way they relationally um work together or or cope, it isn't based on the basic needs that were given to them, like food, water, shelter. We if we think about Abraham uh Maslow's uh pyramid, the the very bottom is hey, you've got to have the basic needs, which yes, absolutely we need to have those things. But what Hibulby found out is not that. That in fact, what it is when people are denied, children are denied love and comfort, regardless if they're fed and clothed and they're in a home, that they are so insecure and they create a different styling. I often tell my clients, and I can't remember where I heard this way, this analogy of explaining it. I don't know if it was a professor, I can't remember. So whoever it is, if you're listening, I apologize. Thank you. I love it. I tell my clients all the time. But how I explain to my clients is that when we discover our attachment stylings, first and foremost, we're not we're not blaming parents. Now, you could have some really awful parents, okay. So we can blame them all day long. Or we just have parents that, hey, they did the best they can, right? But really how I explain it to them is that imagine your parents are the hardware store. Okay, that's your parents. They have all the nuts and bolts, the hammer, the nails, the wood, the framing, the the insulation to keep that house perfectly warm. Everything's there, okay. You've got it all in there. They might even have, you know, their emergency um loads of MREs and and barrels of water. Get me? Okay. That that's your parents. That's your parents. But sometimes our parents don't know how to feed us. So you're never going to find um, you know, milk on the shelf. You're never gonna find food on the shelf in a a um hardware store. In effect, when we think about a baby, what do they require? Mother's milk. Well, what does mother's milk really identify for us? Well, they have to have it for sustenance of life, right? But having a baby on a breast, if you're able to breastfeed, is the most intimate connection and attachment to your child. But if your parents didn't have the milk in the where the hardware store, because most of them don't have it, then you're left with food and shelter, but you're you're missing out on the most basic sustenance that that that closeness, that connection. So when we think about our attachments, it's really based on our parental figures or a primary caregiver. So when I explain these four different stylings that can occur, kind of keep that in mind, okay? And again, I want to say we're not blaming parents. Some of we, some of you all have horrific childhoods. And so blame them all you want. Blame them all you want. But what I want you to hear when I'm sharing this with you is that this does not have to be a you know, uh a verdict for the rest of your life. You can, you can become securely attached. So here's the styling. So this is what happens when we create these relational patterns or relationships with our primary caregivers or our parents. Okay. So there is the first styling, which is called secure attachment. So this comes from a healthy relationship with the primary caregiver, and they show the child that they're loved and cherished, and they also can show the child appropriate relationship boundaries. So child might get in trouble, but child knows, yes, I might get grounded, but they still love and cherish me. Okay. So this individual shows confidence, they um can reciprocate in relationships, they're non-reactive and they're resilient, and they can trust easily. Most times they're able to tune into their emotions and be like, ooh, I'm not feeling so so great right now. And they can communicate when they're upset. And typically, typically, those that have a secure styling, they're cooperative and flexible in relationships. Now, here's the thing: this is, I always say this caveat too. All of these things doesn't mean you're absolutely these things at all times, right? It's why I hate all the personality tests and stuff. Just because you do the Enneagram, which I hate that thing, guys. Please stop talking about it. Um, it doesn't mean you're a two or a seven or whatever that hogwash is. Um, we all have different parts of ourselves and our lives. And sometimes we're gonna be really stellar securely attached. Sometimes we're gonna have off days. Okay. So again, these are not these absolute, absolute things. Sometimes we have good days, sometimes we don't, but that's what a secure attachment is. The second kind of attachment is called anxious or preoccupied. So this comes from limited parental involvement. Um, the child usually shows major distress when the parent leaves. Um, and there's like a constant craving for relationships, but also with that constant craving for a relationship, there's also a real struggle with trust. Like, can I trust that they're gonna stick around? So these individuals are typically highly emotional, they have very sensitive nervous systems. So um they physically logically are going to feel massive anxiety before they can even put a name to it. Does that make sense? Um, they struggle to communicate directly. Uh, they're people pleasers, um, and they tend to act out when they're triggered with their their attachment person, whether it's in their marriage or you know, boyfriend, girlfriend, or whatever. And so that looks like jealousy um and they constantly need reassurance. Okay. So that's anxious, preoccupied attachment. So the third styling is called avoidant attachment. Okay. And so this happens when the attachment figures, so mom, dad, whatever it is, um, were very abusive or neglectful. Okay. So these people um they don't really have a parental preference. Whereas like an anxious attachment might might be anxiously attached to mom or dad, something like that. Whereas avoidance are like, whatever. Um, they're extraordinarily independent, very independent, and they typically minimize others' feelings and needs. They they just like, yep, get over it. You're fine. Buck up, camper. Get get along, go, come on, you know, that's what they are. Um, and they actually prefer a casual relationship. They really have a hard time with commitment. So you're gonna see this oftentimes with people that um are fairly promiscuous. Um, there's some really wonderful research on both avoidant and anxious stylings and how that shows in promiscuity. And and it it leads to a lot of pain. It really does. But there's some really interesting research that's coming out about our stylings and um sex, because sex really is that most intimate bringing together. Um, and so avoidance, they just want to have a lot of sex and there's no connection. Anxious, they're having a lot of sex, but they're like, hold on to me, don't leave me. So it's it's both both ways are highly painful for them. So the fourth and last styling is called disorganized, and this comes from um inconsistent parenting. And I'm gonna tell you that this is the most painful um attachment style that I see come into my office. Because really what it is, this individual feels just like so confused by relationships. It's like they have this longing for a commitment, but then on the other side, they're like, nope, I'm gonna avoid it. So it's kind of uh, you can imagine someone in a disorganized home. It might be um, like I have clients that have parents that were drug addicts. So mom or dad might show up at one point because they're not on a binge and they're there just for a moment and they actually show kind of some love to their kiddos, and then bam, they're gone. They stole everything out of the house and they're down the street getting high. So it's very inconsistent patterning. And so, as a little kid seeing this, it's like, oh, where do I go? It's so disorganized. And then what happens when they grow up into adults is they're like, I don't know how to do this, I don't know how to relate relationally because I've never seen it done securely. And so often these people really struggle with feelings of worthlessness. I mean, absolutely devastating worthlessness. And they do some of them tend toward aggressive and antisocial behavior. Okay. So those um are the stylings. And I wonder if you're kind of thinking through like which one's me, what did it look like? And again, what's fascinating about attachment theory and this attachment styling is they say that we create these between the ages of zero and three. And so when we create these, our brain has grown that way, and then therefore, we are doing that relational attachment for the rest of our lives. Woo! And I can tell you, um, when I really started digging into and understanding my own personal anxiety, I'm an anxiety girl, I tell everybody that. Um, but when I started really digging into my anxious attachment, what I started doing is looking at different characteristics of myself and who I was attracting. And man, it really opened my eyes and just that mindfulness of like, wow, this is what's been going on with me. This is this is what's happening with my friendships and my relationships and my, I mean, it was really, it opened up a whole new world to me. And it really allowed that mindfulness for me to stop with the pattern of behavior and start learning how I can securely relate to others. So that's just a little bit about attachment. And I've heard from individuals they say, you know, um, something that when they come into my office, they might say something like, Well, it was just going so great. And then we're just right back to fighting, you know, and some will try to struggle through it and they focus so acutely on what the fight was about rather than what led to the fight, or rather than what's the pattern of the fight. So they focus on um the the ball, the what, and not the game. Okay. And and for most of my couples, you know, um, unfortunately, a lot of them I would say, and I've never looked at the research, but what I see in my office is I'd say 95%, maybe 98, um, attach their, or excuse me, marry their attach opposite attachment style. Excuse me, let me spit that out. So oftentimes we attach to the one that is opposite of ourselves, which really makes it very difficult. Very difficult. So, for example, um, the wife may start nagging her husband about picking up his mess and spending time with kids, and she just like follows him around the house and nips at his heels, right? The husband then becomes super silent and just like shuts the door and won't talk to anyone. So the silent or excuse me, the cycle here is listen to anxiety. The wife is feeling anxiety. Remember, anxious attachment are highly attuned to their nervous systems, they're very sensitive. So she's listening to anxiety in her internal or even external environment, and she's fighting for recognition and response. Like, you will answer me, pick up your damn shoes. Right. Um, and then the husband, what happens with him is he avoids engagement and he just detaches and shuts down. But let me ask you this and I'm I'm willing to bet you've had these fights. Because I think all of us have fallen into this. But what was the fight actually about? Was it really about him being messy and not hanging out with kids? That might be part of it, but was that really what that was about? I think she would say to me, Well, he's just lazy. And he would say to me, he would say, Well, I'm just sick of her crap and I can never do anything right. But here's the thing, they're going to go round and round and round because they're not identifying what the feelings are that are perpetuating this cycle. And granted, here's the funny thing. Typically, I say feelings are not facts. I'm not saying this is a fact, but they do point us to something. So, what are the feelings that are perpetuating the cycle that they're having? Not what happened, not picking up the clothes or whatever, not hanging out with the kids, him ignoring me, not what's happening, but what's the feelings that are perpetuating this cycle? So, what John Bowlby says when it comes to attachment theory is that when individuals feel a threat to their security in their relationship, um, where they feel uncertain or vulnerable in their world, okay, so this can be perceived threat or a negative shift, and it can be taking place in their external environment. So husband loses job, he loses the job, and wife is like, woo, super anxious, right? That's our external environment. Or it can be internal, y'all. It doesn't matter if it's true or imaginary. Do you hear me on that? When we feel a threat to our security, it does not matter if it's real or if it's imagined, it's a perception of the threat. That's the feeling that's perpetuating the cycle. So here's another example. Imagine, say, a three-year-old little girl who has an attack anxious uh attachment styling. So what we know from that is that um she just wasn't sure what mom was gonna feel about her. She she just parental involvement was limited, right? So she just felt anxious about everything. So imagine this little girl and she's acutely aware of um her mother, and she's always watching her, and she's always feeling kind of like on eggshells, like, well, is today will she love me today, or like, is she gonna ignore me? Like, I oh, you know, she's anxious, okay? So all of a sudden, her little heart starts beating really, really hard when she hears her mom on the phone in a high, shrill voice. So she's feeling physiologically like something's wrong, something's wrong. She feels it, she feels it in her chest, maybe her tummy's tightening, maybe her hands start sweating. And automatically she assumes something is wrong with her. And mommy doesn't love her anymore. When in reality, actually, mom is on the phone with her best friend and they're laughing about the newest sitcom. And mom isn't upset about little girl, she's just caught up in the conversation, she doesn't even know she's standing there. So, did little girl perceive reality? Nope. It's styling and it's the perception of threat, external or internal, that sets off these cycles of these fights. So now, now what, right? You have um you kind of have an understanding of attachment styling, but how do you figure out what's taking place in your relationship and stop arguing about what is going on and see the pattern of behavior? How do we do this? So, first, what we really need to do, like I've been talking about, is we have to identify a basic pattern. Um, well, let me start over and say actually, what we first need to find out is what kind of styling do you typically fall into? And then what we do is we identify the basic pattern. Again, that that is why I always go back to my foundational approach. I work brain-body connection, and then I work attachment styling. It is integral to my work with clients, both individual basis and in couples therapy. So you identify the basic pattern. So most um couples that come into my office, they either fall into demand withdrawal or criticize and defend. And this is something that's been um identified by marriage researchers, um, counseling therapists, psychotherapists. These are the crucial uh behaviors that we see in these partnerships. So, really, what these patterns are is it's a direct protest. This came out of a book here, and I'll share that uh later on. You can get the book. It's a direct protest against loss of feeling secure and safe. Okay. So having um been fighting for so long, then there's also some people that just freeze, and they call that freeze-freeze, where both are so helpless and detach. And um basically they're not even in the game anymore. They settled. Remember my favorite song at the beginning of the show? They settled, they just settled. So basically, you know, we have demand withdrawal, criticize and defend, or freeze-freeze. Um, Sue Johnson, who, Dr. Sue Johnson, who is an expert in EFT, emotionally focused therapy, discusses all of these in her research and her book, Hold Me Tight. And I'm telling you, I'm beginning to engage in my clients in this book because for me, I have often used Gottman method, and I love the Gottmans. I think they're fabulous. Um, I also use a symbus, which is a faith-based process, but there was something missing. There was something missing. Every time I worked with these couples, I was like, gosh, there's something, I don't get it. There's something missing. And I actually, all of a sudden, I was like, you know, we just need to go at attachment stylings first. And it's so funny because uh training came across my desk with Dr. Johnson. I was like, I don't have time to learn about EFT. I'm already trying to focus. Like, I just I can't, I can't, I can't have a bandwidth. But I just happened to be in a training, another one last week, and they mentioned her book. And I thought, all right, you know, I'll read it. And sure enough, there she is talking about marriage or partnerships, and that we have to focus emotionally and understanding where we're coming from based on our attachment styling. I was like, stop it, Piper. All these years, you are so frustrated, and you've got the expert. Why did you try to like reinvent the wheel here? But anyway, she's fabulous, Dr. Johnson. And so this hold me type book, and I'm engaging my clients with this. One of the things she says to help us identify the basic pattern is ask this question. Write this down. Get a pen and paper, write this down. So the more I blank, so that might be partner one, the more you blank for partner two. And the more I partner one, so what do you do after that? And on and on we go. So, right, the hamster will. So, for example, the more I nag and I chase you down the hall because you're ticking me off, the more you ignore me, and then the more I keep nagging and chasing you down the hallway, right? Or the more you criticize me, the more I'm coming to my defense and saying, no, I don't do this. And then the more you're like, see, that's all you do, the more you criticize, and on and on we go. And here is the scariest one. The more I hear you criticize and defend, the more I freeze you out. And the more I freeze you out, the more you freeze me out. And then what? So this is a really great way for you to sit down and identify your pattern and the root of it. Um, what is it? And again, going back to what uh Dr. Bowlby says, it is a disconnection in your attachment, whether it's perceived or not, right? It's a threat. You're feeling a threat. It does not have to be real. You are feeling threatened. I mean, it can be down to here's the funny story. Um, I am of an age where I am walking into perimetopause, y'all. This is not fun. I it is absolutely miserable. And one of the things that's happening with perimetopause menopause, and I won't give you all the biology, I've read everything now, but there's a drop in estrogen and progesterone, and so I'm acting like a crazy person. So I'm not only feeling like emotionally insecure, like, why am I acting so just like unregulated? Um, I've also noticed a huge difference with my body. And so um I've really been struggling with it. I previously was quite, quite heavy, and I've worked really hard in the last decade to lose all the weight. And then um I've I've maintained weight for years and years and years, all of these things. And all of a sudden I'm like, what just happened? Like, I blinked my eyes, and there's all this weight, and my butt's bigger. I mean, it's just it was really disconcerting. So, my internal environment, I felt so insecure because what's going on? I'm I'm like to my husband, I'm just I'm I'm feeling this way. I just this is not good. And he responded with, babe, I think you're really beautiful and gorgeous. In my mind, I'm hearing he just says that because he loves you. So I'm perceiving a break in our secure attachment. I'm I'm perceiving that there's a threat. Does it have to do with anything in reality? Absolutely not. It has to do with these crazy lack of hormones, and I'm just being irrational. But it felt like a threat. And so then I became even more anxious with him. And it's just like, well, but this is what's going on. And it just, it was not good. It was not good. So that's kind of my example of you know, you have to identify the patterns, but you also have to identify it, doesn't have to be real, it can be perceived, it can be a perceived internal threat. Okay, so all that to be said, a great way for you to identify the basic pattern is the more I, partner one, you fill that out, the more you, partner two, fill it out. And then the more I, partner one, fill it out. And then you're going on and on and on. That's the pattern of behavior that you really want to identify. So so far we've learned about attachment stylings, and now you're hearing about how to uncover the game that's being played or the pattern. So you don't settle, so you don't keep settling. The Gottmans, which they're the wonderful marriage experts, and they also tell us that the worst place you can be is in settling, that the detached um void that is so so dangerous to be in a relationship. I remember I was working with a couple and he was really fighting, and she was done. I mean, done. And we fought together. We we did all the stuff we needed to do, and ultimately I just had to say it to him, what are we doing? What are we doing? And pretty much it was like, Yeah, I want to divorce him. And he's like, I don't want to, it was just it was ugly, y'all. But there was such, she was so detached, she settled. She's like, I'm out. She was in the freeze freeze. It was sad, it was really sad. So, you know, the the Gottmans warn us that we that's a bad place to be, but all hope is not lost. Okay. Now, my podcast would be hours long if I continue this conversation. Yes, I'm going to leave you with a cling cliffhanger. But what I can tell you is that um the fight that you seem to be having over and over and over again again, and everything you do has to do with your styling and a pattern. Now, we bring other things into that too, trauma histories, all of that. But at the basis, I really truly believe our stylings and these patterns we fall into, that keeps us on this hamster wheel. And if we don't say no to it and we don't identify it, we're just gonna keep doing this thing over and over, and you're gonna keep hurting. And and here's the other thing, too. When I say to clients, you know, what's the problem? Remember, what's the problem? Well, he does this, she does that. They're always pointing the part the finger at the partner. Right now, often it's you, okay. You need to find your styling, period, and become aware of your styling and then understand your partner's styling. So that's part of the process of identifying the pattern. You've got to see the game, not the ball. Okay. And you can ask for help. I hear all the time, well, we've tried canceling counseling, it doesn't work, or I don't trust counselors, or I know the problem, it's not me. Okay. But if we are stuck in a cycle of demand withdrawal or criticize and demand, and we've learned that it's based in reality or perception, maybe giving it another go with a renewed approach will be what you need to learn and heal your relationships. And plus, I can tell you from my personal experience, I was highly anxiously attached when I met my husband. Oh, my poor husband. Our first years, y'all, ooh, they were tough. Tough as in, should we have even been married? But we really worked to identify our pattern. We saw help and we worked to break free of that pattern, and we committed to working through it and not settling. And here's the great news I am securely attached now, which is pretty awesome. Now, it doesn't mean I'm not anxious at times, it happens, but ultimately I have created a secure attachment. And the wonderful thing about working on this is that then you can go into other relationships in your your life with confidence and you're resilient in life. It really is this thing that just overshadows our whole life. So, you know, a renewed approach. Maybe that's what you need. Today I'm securely attached, which has made an enormous difference in my life, and I believe you can be too. If you're curious about discovering your attachment style, check out attachment project at www.attachmentproject.com and find the quiz to learn more. Also, grab Dr. Sue Johnson's book, Hold Me Tight, and the Companion Workbook to help you understand the pattern you and your partner are stuck in. Finally, if you need some help, reach out to me. I offer master's level counseling in Georgia and can do this in person if you're in North Georgia, or you can jump online for a telehealth call. If you're not local, let me know how coaching can help you and your spouse learn to understand and communicate with one another better. That brings us to the end of this episode. Thanks so much for joining me. I hope you learned some things that will equip you to continue in rebuilding the ruins of your life. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review us on your podcast listening platform and share this with your friends and family. As always, thanks so much for listening to Rebuild Your Ruins, a Piper Harris Coaching Podcast. I'll talk with you next time.