Hi, my name is Piper Harris, and welcome to the Untangled Mind Podcast, where I help you untangle your mind to untangle your life's challenges. I'm a mental health therapist in the suburbs of Atlanta, Georgia, and an expert in third-wave CBT for individuals with anxiety, trauma, and grief. On today's episode, we're diving into intuition and heart-based thinking and how negative gossip can actually teach us. Thanks again for joining the Untangled Mind podcast. So my um podcast platform has changed, so you're probably going to hear some different intro music, outro music, all the fun stuff as I play with this. So hopefully you will stick around with me. I'd actually love to hear your opinions on that. So what do you like, what do you don't like? So make sure that you send me a note. So let's dig into today. So today it's kind of interesting. I think, much like most of my podcasts and what I choose to discuss, they're they're, you know, my life, they're relevant, or there's something that's going on in clients' lives. And I feel like, hey, let's like really dig into this. And so it's something that really is top of mind for me today. And um, you know, with a podcasting, with the blogging, it's a wonderful opportunity for me as well to use it as like a cathartic journaling kind of experience. I am pro-journaling. There's so much research on what happens when we tell story and how it helps us really separate ourselves maybe from the emotionality, but also to really process cognitively process, learn, allows reflection, allows um insight. And so I do that often. I do that often with podcasts and blogs. And so you'll learn a lot about what's going on in Piper's life. You'll learn a lot about what's going on in client lives because I think that they are relevant to all of us. So today I really wanted to talk about a couple different things, and it really is about intuition, it's about our brain, it's about something called heart-based living, and it's also about gossip, about gossip. So all of us have one, taken part in gossip, and two, been the root of gossip. And like many of you, I am learning of some gossip of myself, which is a little disturbing, right? And so I thought I'd take this opportunity. I did some research of my own because again, I want to step away from what I'm feeling with the gossip and really be able to process this, gain insight from this, and gain learning from it. But let's let's go back a little bit before I talk about that. So, interesting enough, I was, you know, scrolling away and I ran across a post from Jordan Peterson. I really think he's a phenomenal psychologist. I really enjoy following him. I enjoy his work, I enjoy reading um his books. I'm currently in the middle of something, uh, a book of his Maps of Meaning. Um, it's great. I'm really enjoying that process, that book. But anyway, I ran across one of his posts and it was really interesting. It was this giant um, you know, picture of him, and he says on it that we have a moral obligation to do remarkable things. And I was like, ooh, let's let's hear what he has to say about this. And so this is what his post said. Um, make sure if you don't follow uh Jordan Peterson on Instagram, he is fabulous. Um, and this post, I can tell you, it was posted um today's the 10th of February, so on February 9th, so you can check out this post. So he says we're morally obligated to do remarkable things. So this is what he says. Well, partly because life is so difficult and challenging that unless you give it everything you have, the chances are very high that it will embitter you, and then you'll be a force of darkness. That's not good. Also, the fact that life is short and can be brutal can terrify you into hiding, but you can flip that on its head and understand that since you're all in, you might as well take the adventurous risks. That's a very good thing to understand. What is also also useful to understand is that there isn't anything more adventurous than the truth. This is something that took me a long time to figure out and can craft your words to get what you want. If you're attempting to say what you believe to be true and attempting to act in the manner that you think is most appropriate, that's genuinely you. If you're trying to live in truth, you have the forces of reality behind you, and that seems like a good deal. You have reality and adventure. So why is it that it is a moral obligation? Well, if you hide and you don't let what's inside of you out and you don't bring it into the world, what could you bring? You become cynical and bitter. Not only will you not add to the world what you could add, but you'll start being jealous of people who are competent in doing well and work to destroy them. This is the path to hell. Woo! Good words by Jordan Peterson. So obviously, I shared earlier that I'm on the heels of recognizing some gossip, which is not a lot of fun when you recognize those sorts of things. What's phenomenal about what he is saying is about the truth, about living in our truth, and that we have this moral obligation to live in truth. So, in part, that's the reason I'm doing this podcast, but also because I think when we think of gossip, even the negative gossip, and that's kind of my focus today, when we when we're stuck in the negative gossip, whether you're the recipient of it or you're taking part in it, um, this is where we're not living in truth. We're living in that force of darkness, and that's where you become embittered. I think when I think of people that take part in negative gossip, those are those that are living in um in in bitterness, in bitterness. And most often I believe that they're cynical, they're bitter because maybe there's a reflection of you in them that they just don't quite like. So, all that to be said, this is kind of how it spurred my thoughts. I read this post on Peterson and thought about okay, I I want to have an adventurous life rooted in truth, so let's actually do some research on intuition, gossip the brain, and more. So, navigating life's challenges and the role of intuition. These both are really key. And often when I'm working with people, they have a hard time tuning into intuition because they don't trust it. And so, what we have to do is we have to kind of dive into what they're feeling, what their thoughts are, and really distinguish is this truth or is this an automatic faulty thought? Um, and then when we're able to really reframe those and see where the faulty thoughts are, that's when we can start really stepping in and touching on that intuition and they feel safe when they feel it. Often with people that have a robust trauma history, that intuition is actually that primal driver of the sympathetic response, that fight or flight. And so they are at the whim of this autonomic system response. And so that intuition is saying be fearful, run, whereas I'm saying let's heal that system, let's transform your thinking and your thoughts, and then let's readapt yourself to that role of intuition in your life, and it really helps them in navigating life's challenges. So, some research suggests that intuition it plays this important role in social cognition, decision making, and creativity. But what is intuition? What is intuition? Well, this is kind of this heart-based thinking, but again, like I said just a minute ago, is we have to heal ourselves in order to accurately use and understand what our intuition is saying. So, in the absence of access to these kind of innovative problem-solving approaches like intuition, people can really default, default to those familiar patterns of thought, feeling, and action, right? So that's that autonomic response. Um, these are those responses that I can't trust those in my my life, I can't trust myself, all of those things. So we revert if we don't learn how to access this system. And so what happens is that we become unable to manage these situations, to review them and to find creative solutions by using our inner resources that are really congruent with our core values, with our core values. So intuition plays a very important role in social cognition, decision making, and creativity. But what if you're at the whim of an autonomic system that is dysregulated? So, for example, if you're someone that's taking part in the negative gossip, what is this, what is their system telling them? What is going on? Because I believe, you know, what they say about gossip is really it doesn't, it's actually not all negative. In fact, most of the research I think says it's only about 15% that's negative. The other 85% of it is really just based on it's a social norming, it's to assess your environment, is to create community. Um, but if you are dysregulated, you're grasping for something, and I think that's where we see that negative gossip come in. And so we have got to figure out how to address what's going on in my internal environment, stepping away from these situations and learning to more effectively manage what's going on internally and how we can express that externally, if that all makes sense. So by applying this intuitive intelligence, and that's what I'm talking about, intuitive intelligence, you can improve social cognition. So, meaning that if you're feeling dysregulated, you no longer have to take part in the negative gossip. You don't have to do that. I understand that this is part of everyday life, but if you can tap into that intuitive intelligence, then you have that ability to stand in your truth, to understand what that truth is taking place in. And I hate that I just said your truth. Um, there is truth, there are certain absolute truths, and but this is about being very reflective in yourself, very reflective on this is what I do, this is how I manage, this is the stuff I take part in, all those things. But intuitive intelligence really can help you, but we have to understand how you step into maladaptive coping behaviors. So effectively dealing with stress, excuse me, and sustaining your resilience, it really involves learning to regulate recognize and self-regulate, self-regulate that stream of thoughts. And especially those emotional undercurrents like judgment, negative projection, insecurity, worry, all of those. Those are those negative emotional undercurrents. And what we do then is we create coherence and and we are in coherence, we create incoherence and we waste energy, right? So we have to figure out how to recognize and self-regulate those things. So emotions and thoughts, right? Those are the things that we have to learn to regulate. So by learning to um replace these feelings with more positive and regenerative attitudes and perceptions, then what we can do is we can establish this new inner baseline of reference. So again, if we're always pulling from the same reserve of this autonomic system that's stuck in this painful place, we're going to continue those painful behaviors. So by learning to increase those the and replace those thoughts and feelings, we can establish a new inner baseline reference. And it's a type of implicit memory that organizes, this organizes our perceptions, our feelings, and our behaviors, and allows us more effective responses that uses kind of our hearts, our emotional hearts, perceptual abilities, that intuition to access and bring forth a deeper resource of wisdom. What Peterson was saying is that moral obligation of trueness, the attempt to live um authentically and not to be in hiding and to me be more genuinely you, okay, but without establishing that new baseline reference of self-regulation, that you know incorporates intuitive perspectives. People are at risk of living their lives through these automatic filters of past familiar experiences, including taking part in negative gossip. So intuition is truly created through experiences and reflection. And so it's one that we really do need to hone in on to not only for ourselves, but to identify individuals and groups that do not see this as a moral obligation in their lives. And well, that's the gossipers. So let me take a pause. So as I shared earlier, I um came to the understanding that there was some gossip. Now, again, what research tells us is that gossip really does serve an important social function, it helps us facilitate learning, um, both directly and indirectly through observation and hearing. And in fact, a psychologist, uh Robin Dunbar, she said that it actually could have been an evolutionary aspect that it helped us to assess community and to know where am I safe, where am I not safe. So even a meta-analysis in 2019 found that participants spent an average of 52 minutes a day involved in gossip, involved in gossip. But again, it wasn't all the negative gossip. So as I said, I became aware of a situation. So in my world, it is very important to me that I work with professionals that I can refer out to. It's very important to me. And one of the important aspects of having these individuals, and you can go to untangledmind.net under about, you can read about my provider network, is that these individuals are also a reflection of me. So I've spoken with each of these individuals on my own, and I have referred clients whom also give me their reviews. And so it is very important to me that I trust them, that they're ethically based, that they know what they're talking about, um, because again, it's a reflection on me, and I want my clients to receive the best care. Unfortunately, I had a provider that didn't work out just based on some things that I had learned, and a lot of that is HIPAA, um, is HIPAA protected, so I can't save it, say it exactly, but I had to remove myself from that professional relationship, and this was eight months ago. Not a big deal. Those things happen. It was a choice I made um for the protection of my clients as well as the protection of my reputation. Unfortunately, eight months later, I find that um a couple of different individuals are speaking about what happened eight months prior. Um, and I didn't quite put it together until I sat with it and I thought, wait a second, what did I just hear? Because a different individual came to me and specifically asked why I ended that professional relationship. And of course I said, I can't get into that, that's HIPAA protected. Um, and at first I thought, oh, they're just curious. And the more I sat with it, I was like, oh, wait a second. I need to tap into my intuition, tap into what I've learned in the past, and recognize what I'm hearing. There was negative gossip taking place. So when you're in this position of tapping into intuition, the first thing you have to do is not be overridden by emotion. Um, so when I first realized it, I was um hurt, I was very hurt. Um, then I was angry and I thought, okay, well, this doesn't serve me. I need to step out of the feeling, step out of the feeling and consider what's going on. So I do that and I teach my clients that when we have a heightened emotional response, we need to step outside of it and investigate it, become an observer or a scientist over our feelings and our thoughts. And so that's what I did myself, and I stepped outside of it and said, okay, I don't like this feeling, but feelings are not facts. What are the the thoughts that are rooting or or excuse me, are um propelling my feelings and possible behaviors? So the behavior today is a podcast. Um, behavior today is my um way of sharing with you how you can also digest these things and not be caught in others' emotional um propensity to bring you into their their their garbage. And so I had to step back and think about okay, what what's the thought that's rooted in this? Well, the original thought is is I was very clear on the intuition I had with the original party, and it was clear to me that I needed to separate myself from that individual with our professions. Um, this was not a personal call on that other individual. This is purely rooted in this is about professional, this is about my clientele, this is about my professional reputation. So I stepped into that and thought, okay, I thought that through. That was not emotionally based. This was the right choice. Then I took another step back and brought this other player into the picture. And I said, okay, well, what's the thought here? What's actually thought? The feeling I have is hurt, the feeling I have is um betrayal, the feeling I have is disgust, the feeling I have, so I'm going through my own emotion wheel. And again, this is something that I use with my clients all the time. Um, it's very important for us to absolutely name our feelings accurately so then we can tame them, if that makes sense. So there was betrayal, there was disgust, um, there was um a real sense of um regret, there was a real sense of um loneliness because I had looked toward creating um a friendship. So I sat down with those feelings and then I stepped into again, let's think about this. What's the thought that's propelling these feelings? Well, the thought was I am hoping to establish relationships not only professionally but personally, and because I'm finding that neither of these relationships worked, it's propelling those emotions. And what I'm doing in stepping outside of the hurt and thinking this through is that I'm not allowing the feeling to overtake and make me irrational. Um, but it's also allowing me to process and see, okay, you made the right steps, these are the correct steps. These feelings are okay, they're relevant, um, but now you learn. You so you think about the think, the thought, you consider the emotion that comes with it. They're they're real and they're valid, but then you choose by stepping out, like I'm saying, you choose to step into a different behavior. What my intuition told me with the original party was this isn't good for you, this isn't good for your business. So I held on to that. What my intuition told me with this second party was, well, I failed. I was so wanting to make a friendship, but then I stepped back. I'm like, hold on, intuition. That's an emotionally based reaction. What are you telling me? What is my heart telling me? My heart's telling me you made the original first assessment and you just needed to trust it moving forward. So it helped you all. It helped so much for me to step out of it. But again, gossip really is a social phenomenon. It is, it is everywhere. We all know that, whether it's in our families, it's with our friends, it's with our coworkers. There's always something going on with gossip. There's it it talking of people. All gossip really means is you're talking about a third party that's not present. It doesn't always have to be negative. So another study that I ran across when I was thinking about the process of tapping into intuition, creating a new reference baseline, and and how that um works with gossip in our brain. This um study actually proposed that gossip does impact reputation formation, right? It does, or partner selection and cooperation. So the the research really was trying to scrutinize um the impact of negative gossip on the work environment. So it wasn't really for everything outside of that, but it does impact reputation formation, partner selection, and cooperation. So it doesn't necessarily have to be negative if we're in a group of people talking about a party that's not present. We're taking in the data, we're taking in the information that then allows us to create our next steps, our behavior. So there are specific areas of the brain that are involved in gossip that they're finding. So what was really fascinating to me again, I'm stepping out of my feeling, right? I'm stepping out of my feeling so that I have. More appropriate behavior. And so part of stepping out of it is I'm going to research this. And what was fascinating about the parts of the brain that are initiated during the process is I thought, well, of course, it's going to be the amygdala. That's our emotion center. That makes total sense. It's all it's all emotional responses. But guess what? The first area that was in the research? Prefrontal cortex. This is our executive function. This is our smart brain. This is our logical brain. I thought, wait a second, I don't understand. How is the prefrontal cortex involved in this? And so what it is is it's implicated in the social cognition and it regulates our social behavior. So the PFC allows us to direct our attention to specific social stimulus. So if we're in the midst of a crowd and there's a gossip going on, our prefrontal cortex is taking that smart brain, right? Our top brain is taking in what we're hearing, what we're seeing, what we're feeling, and it's really creating an understanding of this is what this social context is going on. This is a stimulus that I'm taking in and provides us an ability to recognize what's going on socially, cognitively. I was fascinated by this. I just thought, you know, when you're taking part in gossip, it's only the amygdala. Now, the amygdala is absolutely part of this process. In fact, what was really interesting about it is that one of the research studies that I found was individuals that are feeling dysregulation, they're feeling dysregulation. If they begin to gossip, it creates soothing. And it what with the dysregulation, what they found was they had an increase in heart rate. And if they gossiped in negative gossip, it actually slowed their heart rate. What in the heck? So if we talk crap about someone, we can regulate our nervous system and lower our heart rate. What does that say about us as human beings? I mean, I I read that and I thought, wait a second. So I'll feel better if I talk crap about Sally across the hallway. That's messed up, y'all. This is where it's so important to learn our own regulation, you know, to learn how to regulate our systems. It's so it, I mean, it's so important to step out of ourselves, understand. So I I digress. Amygdala is obviously a part of that because it's the emotional processing. Okay, it's emotional processing. Um, and it really helps us recognize as well the effectiveness of our gossip, right? So if we're seeing that somebody likes our juicy piece of gossip, we're going to keep going. However, then if we are recognizing our amygdala is recognizing, ooh, this isn't going as well as I hoped, it's helping us also kind of shift and not be, you know, saying the things that we're saying. So again, it brings back to the prefrontal. So it's very interesting. There's another area of the brain, the temporal parietal junction, the TPJ, and the medial prefrontal cortex. So these areas are implicated in, excuse me, mentalizing or imagining another's state of mind, which is really truly a fundamental aspect of gossip. So these areas allow us to mentalize talking about this individual. It's um when it comes to negative gossip, this would be an individual. I feel spurned by this, you know, burned by this person, and I'm mentalizing them, I'm I'm imagining them hearing this and I'm hurting them, right? So there's different parts of the brain that allow us when we're gossiping to create images in our mind. So if you think about that, those three, just those three different areas, four different areas, there's a lot going on and firing in your brain. And also when we do negative gossip, it slows our heart rate. So if we're in a severely dysregulated state and we haven't learned how to create that internal baseline that's rooted in that moral obligation of truth, um, we're gonna keep doing it. We are gonna keep doing it because there's so many parts of our brain that are firing that saying this is the right way to do it. And that's the thing about our brain. Our brain is a lazy thing, it's phenomenal, it's fascinating, but it is so lazy and takes so many shortcuts. In fact, I think um I have an old podcast on that on heuristics or a blog, so make sure you you listen or read that. So there are lots of areas of brain that are firing involved in the practice of gossip, and it helps um our brain helps make sense of um all of this and through our previous experiences. And in fact, um that is that is truly um the intuitive intelligence. Now, is it intelligent in the sense of um are you being an intelligent, morally obligated person if you're taking part in negative gossip? Well, no, but again, that's still that intuitive intelligence at play with the PFC, with that prefrontal cortex, the amygdala, the TPJ, and the MPC, NPFC. So, some aspects of negative gossip is also um, there's some personality traits associated with people that engage in it. Again, gossip is a social norm, not all of it is bad. Specifically, I'm speaking of the negative, just because I'm trying to process this myself. So I wanted to dig in too because I would assume people that take place in take part in negative gossip, um, they're really bad people. But what's interesting, what I learned, is that actually a study in the PMC in 2019 um associated some dark personality traits like narcissism, Machiavellianism, and psychopathy with gossipy behavior. But here's the the thing is they were not able to fine-tune the understanding of these individuals and and um if they understood the harm that gossip causes. So it was it was an interesting study that they explored some of those kind of darker personality traits, but they really couldn't conclude if these are only the individuals that take part in dark gossip. So again, stepping out of what I read, I assume people that take part in dark gossip have those dark personality traits. Okay, because I'm feeling my feelings, right? I step out and I observe and I say, Have you ever done dark gossip? And the answer is absolutely I have. Do I have narcissism? I'm I do not have narcissistic personality disorder. Now, everybody has narcissistic traits, and I know I have them as well. Um, was is there psychopathology with me? No, that would be very disturbing. Um, and Machiavellianism, um that can be seen both good and bad, I I I believe, but anyway, all that to be said, I had to step out of it and say, am I all those dark personality traits? And the answer is no. So therefore, my assumption that people that take part in this was wrong, was wrong. So another article that I I stumbled upon on on psychology today highlighted that again, that 15% of gossip tends to be negative, while the remaining 85% is either neutral or positive. So everybody loves to hear, hey Piper, your you know, your reputation precedes you. You're we're really looking forward to working with you. That's positive gossip. That feels good, that's really good. And then other times it's neutral, it's neutral gossip, like, hey, did you hear the boss is out of the office today? That's neutral gossip. The boss is not there, he's the missing party, but something was said about him being gone. But that's neutral, he's just out of the office for the day. Okay, so that's that study suggests that negative gossip actually does not overwhelmingly um constitute the majority of gossip behavior. So that's good, right? So again, this is helping me step out of the fields and say, okay, this is not overwhelmingly what's taking place, and maybe not with this individual as well, these individuals. So, in contrast, another study that I found that was published in Sage Journals notes that lay people, like most of us, um, we perceive and stereotype gossipers. Here's where mine came in, okay? So, again, stepping out of the fields and looking at this, what they said is that we perceive the negative gossipers as uneducated, immoral, typically female, and lower social class. Interesting, isn't that? When I go back to the post that caught my eye with Jordan Peterson, what was the first thing that I loved about it? That I have a moral obligation to live in a different manner because I am sitting in the feeling of the immorality of these individuals that took part in negative gossip. Interesting, isn't it? So I thought that was fascinating. However, in this same study, the same journal, um Sage Journal study, it also points out that there's no systematic observations that have been empirically revealed with distinct characteristics of people who gossip more than others. So those dark personality traits, could they be? Sure, but we can't prove it. So what does that tell me? Gossip hurts when it's negative, so we sit in the feelings, but if we step out of it scientifically, try to um uh observe this, try to prove this and give empirical data, we can't. Because it's all about feeling, y'all. All about feeling. So another um study on gossip, it was published in PMC in 2021, indicated that people often gossip about others' trustworthiness and norm violation. Norm violations, okay. So remember, gossip is a way for us to create our social connections. So when we're in gossip, what we're doing during this time, and here comes a prefrontal cortex, is that we're saying, can I trust this person? And are they breaking norms? This is what I'm gonna say with my particular situation. Um, another one of the things that Peterson does, he does um the big five personality test, and I am extraordinarily high on compassion, and that has um bit me in the butt uh a many, many times. And so with that, I've learned to manage um how I provide compassion. I used to just give it to everyone without um taking into context what am I seeing, who's this individual? And so with that, you will see what the other part of my personality is I'm very low in politeness, very low. What this means is I buck norm norms, I buck certain leadership. You can prove to me that I will I will respect you and follow you as a leader, but outside of that, you need to earn my respect. And that came from kind of a snapback with my high compassion. And so I wonder with these individuals, is that I bucked a social norm. They're women, so I wonder if part of the norm was how dare she cut out one of our own. It came from an emotional center, and I think often we also want when we're cut out of people's lives, whether it's personally or professionally, we try to make sense of it. And I didn't bother making sense of it. I don't need to make sense of it. This is my business decision. So I wonder is when this gossip all came to light again, is the new party was assessing my trustworthiness while the older partner is still, or partner in this scenario, is still reeling from the perceived norm violation of saying, I don't need to give you an explanation and I'm out. So again, it's allowing me to step out of it and say, okay, I can see where this took place. The hurt's starting to go away. And again, though, there's no actual evidence on characteristic traits. So everything that I felt about these individuals, well, it doesn't matter. That's a feeling, not a fact. So to summarize, there's there is research indicating that gossip is essential for social learning and maintaining group norms, and that um there are some, there is some evidence relating to specific personality traits, um, especially those that have a tendency to engage in negative gossip, but it's relatively scarce. That's what I want you to hear, is that we think that there are these terrible ogres and brutes that do this negative gossip, but they're not. So let's talk about um combating negative gossip with our intuition and self-responsibility. So we need to learn again to harness our intuition and establish a new baseline of ref reference so that we can navigate these social situations involving negative gossip, both us taking part in and us being the butt of the the negative gossip. So navigating the terrain of these social interactions is difficult. So it includes combating negative gossip, obviously, and all the challenges that that presents. And but it also is about that complex social network. We're trying to assess our social settings, we're trying to regulate our autonomic nervous systems, and it's tough. This is a lot of work, this is a lot of work, so it's really important that in these situations that we possess in within ourselves this capability to manage them effectively through intuition. It's it's there's so much power in intuition, but we have to heal ourselves before we can tune into our internal guidance system. And really truly, with intuition, intuition, I believe it's a form of wisdom that's used along with our cognitive processes, those things that we're very aware of. And intuition is that internal guidance system. But you got to do the work, you got to step outside of the hurt, you got to step out of your trauma, your anxiety, your grief, and relearn and heal that system, that our whole self, before in our intuition can be really truly tapped into and trusted as our internal guidance system. So if you think about intuition, you can think of it as this kind of whispering voice that tugs at us and it gently tugs a feeling and it guides us toward or away from situations, including those involving negative gossip. But again, if your internal system always expects the boogeyman, your internal system is not going to be accurate because intuition tugs on a feeling. Feelings aren't facts, so you can listen to that gentle tug on the feeling and then step into that intuition and say, Okay, now what are you telling me? What is the situation saying to me? So you tune into your intuition, but it requires patience, openness, and most importantly, trust in yourself. So you have to heal before you can step into this process. So a couple of different ways that we can tune into our intuition. Number one, as I said, we have to heal those internal parts of ourself and be very self-aware. You cannot trust this internal system along with bringing in healthful, adaptive, cognitive processes thinking, if we are not healed and if we are not involved in self-awareness. For example, I had a new client that began and we were discussing just some interpersonal situations, and um, this individual said to me, Well, I tell people if I don't like how they look. And I said, Okay. And I said, What do you get out of that? And the individual wasn't able to really say what they got out of it, because again, when we just spurt out these things, when we just give people our unadulterated opinions or we do the negative gossip, that is a reflection of a imbalanced, dysregulated internal system. And so this individual and I talked about it, and I said, based on, and we haven't had much time together, and I said, based on the little information I have about you, this is what I think is taking place, and this is what you get out of it. What I think is taking place is that you are so dysregulated, there's so much pain, so much trauma, so much distrust of those in your social environment that if you just throw out, I think you know, you look like crap in that, whatever it is, you are bracing your, you're you're saying, nope, here's my boundary, you can't hurt me because I'm gonna hurt you first. So essentially, by this person taking place in that, their system is dysregulated. And what did the the research tell me? When your system's dysregul dysregulated, your your heart rate's up, especially in social situations. So I'm gonna punch you in the nose, like negative gossip. I'm gonna punch you in the nose with my words, and that regulates my system and lowers my heart, my heart's um, my heart rate. Fascinating, right? And I saw it taking place in the therapy room. So this individual has got to heal that system, and I bring that to the forefront of this is this is what you're doing on a very physiological level. You are regulating your system by popping people back with your words. That's what you're doing. And this individual goes, Oh, I never thought that's what I was doing. And I said, But you feel better afterward, right? Well, yeah. So this is your defense mechanism. This is the maladaptive way you've learned to regulate a dysregulated system. Okay. So, but, but again, once we do the healing, then we can really start the awareness, right? The awareness, the healing, um, our internal environment, our cognitive environment. That's when we can really start tapping into intuition. So, what we can do is by taking moments of self-reflection, you can allow that intuitive voice to emerge. And it might tell you to distance yourself from gossip-filled conversations or um unsafe environments, or it might steer you to a conversation that's more positive, right? So, again, only 15% of gossip is actually negative. So remember, it's not about um using our intuition to eradicate gossip and eradicate the lack of safety, because I mean, sometimes a lack of safety actually teaches us, okay? But rather it's about an understanding our response to it and managing it so it doesn't impact our peace of mind, right? Just like what I'm doing here today with you all. So let's also discuss the importance of establishing that new baseline reference. For us to create a new baseline reference so we're not always automatically reacting, we have to perceive our experiences based on what we do. We perceive our experiences based on established norms, and that's known as a baseline reference. Okay, so for example, when we encounter negative gossip, we react not only to the situation, but also to the added context of our past experiences and perceptions. So imagine we need to reset this back baseline. Because if we sit there and we only keep our our norm, our baseline reference, I'm gonna be hurt, these people are evil, they're all narcissistic, all those things. And then we encounter negative gossip, we're just gonna keep building on that negative baseline that keeps us trapped, right? Keeps us trapped, paralyzed in fear, negative, all of the things. So imagine resetting this baseline. So with that, you start to see every interaction as a new experience free from the past negative associations. Now, this is very difficult because, like I said, our brain is a very lazy thing. Our brain also has a negative bias, it's always looking for those negative associations. It's very um evolutionary in the fact that it's it was created to keep us safe. But if all we're doing is looking at past negative associations, we can't move forward in life. We can't. So imagine resetting the baseline, and each experience is a new experience free from past negative associations. Those negative associations are always going to be there. Okay, they're always gonna be there. But if we can look at this as a new experience, we it can provide us a fresh outlook and a greater mental resilience. So it transitions us toward a new baseline. Those negative interactions took place, it doesn't therefore have to continue. Continue to build and accumulate into the same norm baseline that you have. Okay. A new baseline, if we can step out of these things, can empower us with a choice to respond negatively to the gossip or positively. Additionally, looking for a new baseline, this also resets our safety system. So it resets our safety system that it's looking to create social community-based in different individuals and different approaches and behaviors. If our safety system is constantly saying, don't trust, don't trust, don't trust, our we won't build that community. And I'm telling you, all the research shows us we have to have community. And all the research shows us that everybody gossips. So what are we going to do? Sit in the old baseline system or create a new system through tapping into intuition, right? So when you're thinking about all of this and you're saying, Piper, okay, I hear you. What in the world? How do I do this? I know this is a lot of information, and truly, you need a professional to help you with this. A professional to help you map out, okay, here's our our foundation. We've got to heal you. We have to heal you physiologically. I need to keep teach you about your brain-body connection. I need to talk to you about what dysregulation is, how does it show up in your life? We need to heal those wounds when it comes to your trauma, your grief, anxiety. Then we build up, we build up, we build up, and we build up. So intuition is a wonderful, powerful internal tool, but you have so many steps before. Okay, so hear me with that. You need someone that can help you build and climb this ladder with you. So what's really important with all of this is that you really need to explore your deep core values and practice heart-based living, especially in dealing with gossip. So personal growth and well-being, it's really essential for us to understand the alignment of our core values and to embrace heart-based living. So, what's heart-based living? So, heart-based living is not living in that fear, not living in that sympathetic, autonomic state, fight, fight. Um, and it it's it allows us to tap into those core values and principles that guide you. So you're not all you're not being led by the whims of emotionality. Okay, so you have to understand that. So be it's really important that we navigate challenging social situations involving things like gossip um and aligning our authentic core values, and that allows us to tune in to our internal innate moral compass. Do you see how I'm coming back around to what Peterson was talking about? So by us assessing, we're we're you know, remember, we're we're building on all of these components when you're working on self. Okay, I've healed myself, I understand my emotional um reactions and the behaviors that come from it. So I've navigated the cognitive process, the faulty thinking, I'm learning those tools. Now I'm tapping into my intuition, but to thoroughly tap into that intuition, right? We're building up and up and up and up, you have to be in alignment with your core values, your core values, and it really guides our conscious choices and it reflects our true selves, our true selves. So by embodying our core values, we do become better equipped to respond to gossip mindfully and gracefully. And I feel like that's what I'm doing today. This is not about outing people and their behaviors because I've taken part in negative gossip as well. So that's not what this is about. This is about me trying, hopefully, I'm doing it well, trying to show you how we can step into a new baseline. A new baseline. So heart-based living is another profound approach that can greatly interact or impact your interactions. It involves listening to your heart's intelligence. When you are healed, you can hear your heart's intelligence. And you you take what the heart says, and then you say, Brain, have you all seen those um comic strips or I love them, heart and brain when they talk? So your heart, you're tapping into your heart's intelligence, so that's your intuition, and then you say to brain, okay, let's take all of those things that we have and let's filter, let's filter what's going on. And so when we live from this place of symbiosis of the heart and the mind, it really fosters empathy and it cultivates our compassion. And we gradually experience a deeper connection with ourselves and others, and it allows us to be intuitive about those connections. Should I step into this connection or not? Should I trust that they won't do this again or not? So it's really important for us to step into that. So, in context of gossip, heart-based living becomes a really powerful tool in managing our responses and fostering understanding. It just does. Instead of reacting impulsively or with judgment, we can bring awareness to our emotions, our thoughts, and allow them to be acknowledged and then process them before deciding on a course of action. Too many times all of us are like, why did I do that? It's because we have this feeling and we're impulsively behaving. But when we tap into these things, we we practice understanding, we we work on healing, we understand our core values, that really nurtures self-awareness and helps us to approach gossip from a place of wisdom, detachment, and empathy. It's a lot. So I hope all of this made sense to you. Um, I'm trying to make sense of it myself. I actually feel my system much more regulated. So, as I said, you know, I read this post that Jordan Peterson posted about the moral, moral obligation to do remarkable things. And I'm hoping today this is a remarkable thing. I didn't take part in additional negative gossip. I didn't allow emotionality to control me or create a behavior that I would later be or impulsive behavior that I would later be embarrassed of. I feel like by doing this, I'm I'm doing a remarkable thing. I'm helping us to understand that we can be a force for light and good, and that we can we can look life in its face and have that adventure of taking risk and talking these things out loud, and that we can stand in understanding of truth, that in order for me to understand truth, I have to truthfully look at myself, I have to truthfully look at the research and the data that I've shared with you today, and then I make a logical assessment and therefore create a better, more balanced internal system. Does that all make sense? Does that all make sense? So, you know, Jordan Peterson really spurred me spending this time with you this morning, it might be afternoon for y'all, but this morning over here for me, that I want to be in a world that I can add. I want to be in a world that I can add, and that I don't want to become jealous or jaded by individuals. I want to be seen as competent and doing well. Um, and I don't want to take part in the destroying of others. So it's hard, but we can navigate these life's challenges. We can understand what intuition says to us, we can understand what gossip tells us. That, you know, gossipers aren't really all awful people. Um, they're typically living in a completely dysregulated system. And so it allows us to see these things and apply these tools. So, anyway, I'm I'm droning on. I hope this was helpful for you to understand intuition, gossip, the brain, and how we can reset a new baseline system that affords us the opportunity to live as well-adjusted, caring humans. That brings us to the end of this episode. Thanks for joining me. I hope you learned some tools that can equip you to untangle your mind and untangle your life. If you're curious about working with me for anxiety, trauma, or grief, head on over to my website at untingledmind.net to connect with me. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review me on your podcast listening platform and share it with your friends and family. As always, thanks so much for listening to me, Piper Parents with the Untangled Mind Podcast. I'll talk with you next time.