SPEAKER_00 0:00

Welcome back to the Untangled Mind podcast. Today we go back to our Fish Bowl series, where finding clarity in the ebb and flow of life's complexities is at the heart of our conversation. I'm Piper Harris, and in today's nurturing space, we're unfolding part two of our Fish Bowl series, delving into My Basis A results, a unique tool we've lovingly created for all our clients, untangled mind, and dynamic growth, counseling, and consulting services. In this episode, we'll explore my results and how this valuable compass can guide us towards personal growth, enliven our understanding, and ultimately weave the fabric of our well-being into a richer, more resilient tapestry. So take a moment to nestle in, take a deep breath, and join me and Dr. Susan Balanji as we navigate the waters of self-exploration.

SPEAKER_02 0:49

And what I say about that when I see that is that kind of anchors her on that top side. So even though there is flexibility and creativity in things that she can tap into, because the majority of her score sits inside the shaded area, this little piece that kind of sticks out up top says, I'm probably gonna come back to a place of what was my plan. Yeah. So when something starts to go awry in the creative process, or like, oh, that, you know, that didn't lend itself to the taste of this dish like I thought it would. What do I do now? Um, so Piper's the one that's always gonna come back to, okay, what was the original recipe? What was the original plan? And you know, is what do I need to shift? And because you have the ability to be creative, it's like, okay, I can come up with a new way of doing this. I can figure this out.

SPEAKER_00 1:34

It's kind of like counseling too, right? Yes, very much. I mean, that's that makes more sense because I I do like figuring out. I send my clients tons of assessments, a ton of them. And I like numbers, I like data, I like to prove what we're doing is working. Um, so I can see that with the the counseling process. Like I'm rooted in, okay, this is what I know it is. Like we're working with panic disorder. So that's the thing that's I'm rooted in. So I'm gonna study the thing, but then I allow creativity within sessions. Is that accurate? Exactly. Right.

SPEAKER_02 2:05

Okay. So one of the things that um, you know, that we have to keep in mind in the mental health world is, you know, just because it's it looks one way and people are talking about something in session, you know, in one way, we know that it can shift and morph and change. And so if we've got to have that awareness of, well, this worked in the last session, but it doesn't seem to be clicking today. So what can I change to? What can I shift to? Um, and so I think that's that's one of the strengths for you is having your score be where it is, you can be more fluid.

SPEAKER_00 2:36

Yeah, yeah. So very cool. I just I didn't even think about that. But yeah, because I love the numbers, I love the data, and I do. That's my safety, right? When I don't feel good about something, like maybe I try a new technique and it just falls totally flat, I usually feel awful. And that, but then I go back to okay, time to study. What what where where did I go wrong? How do I shift this? Because I don't want that again, right? So, okay, right.

SPEAKER_02 3:03

That makes sense. And the way that you nurture relationships, so now if we start to bring scales together, okay, right? So you have a plan, you create this idea um, you know, before each session, kind of knowing what you know about your client. But then if your client comes in and like they just had a tragedy in their family or something, you know, just happened, you're capable to set that aside and say, no, let's tend to you know this and let me nurture kind of what you need right here, right now in this moment. And I'm okay to let my plan sit.

SPEAKER_00 3:30

Let me ask you, something just came to mind about the relationship part. So back to more of a personal part. In the past, I have been like, this is what a friendship is. And if it's not the way the friendship is, I am crushed. And so, and I try to be flexible, but I wonder if I'm not.

SPEAKER_02 3:50

Well, I think that that speaks a little bit to another another element of the going along scale. So we've been talking about you know, rules, structure, plans. It's it's also about um values and how do you define for yourself friendship? How do you define um you know rules that I live by, right? So we we hope that everybody believes that red lights exist for a really good reason and that we're supposed to stop when we get to one. Right. Um, we know that some people don't. So um, so anyway, when we think about you know the rules that you live by, um, and you know, I would say for you that one of your rules is you never want somebody to leave you um or leave an interaction with you feeling um feeling like they weren't valued.

SPEAKER_00 4:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 4:37

So when you think about the emphasis you place on that and then the definition of friendship, um, if there's if it if there's not the flexibility, right? So if the strength side doesn't come in and allow you that fluidity and flexibility, depending on what's some going on for what's some what is going on for somebody in that moment, it may feel like, you know, this isn't working for me.

SPEAKER_00 5:01

Yeah. Yeah, I feel unseen. I feel like, well, I just poured into them. Okay, interesting. I still learn 10 years or three times, I'm still learning. And believe me, in our supervision session, she'll be like, Piper, this is showing up.

SPEAKER_02 5:16

She'll bring it up and like, oh so again, we always we always come back to, you know, how how do we use the awareness to make sure you're using it on the strengths. So, all right. So the next one is called taking charge and it measures how much of a natural-born leader do you see yourself to be. Um, and higher scores, yes, you see yourself as as being more of a leader. Um, lower scores point to having a more of a collaborative kind of a spirit in the way that you lead. Um, again, not that you can't step up and take charge of a situation, but if you're lower on this, it's going to take more out of you. Okay. And it probably is going to be like a situation that you would feel comfortable to do that in is something like, yes, I know how to achieve in this moment. I know how to get the job done in this moment. I'm willing to step into that leadership role in that instance. Okay. Um, so your score was a numerically a 25, um, but you're sitting at the top of the shaded area, and you do have another little piece outside of the shaded area on the side.

SPEAKER_00 6:15

So if you know me, you're not surprised by this.

SPEAKER_02 6:18

So that anchors that anchors you in that upper, you know, upper side. Um, you're not a tele of the hun. That's not my right way.

SPEAKER_00 6:25

I'm not yet.

SPEAKER_02 6:27

So um, so it is kind of a best of the both worlds um analogy here, too. So you can listen and collaborate, um, but you're also going to feel comfortable and feel like you have a voice to step into that. No, this is the direction we need to go.

SPEAKER_00 6:41

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 6:42

And because you're going along, and if I again kind of show to the camera, this is the one we're talking about. This is the one we just finished talking about. So they're very close. So the way that you lead most often is is with sharing your plan. Here's my plan.

SPEAKER_00 6:59

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 7:00

Um, so again, you can you can lead just naturally. It's it's kind of the natural inclination according to this. Um, but the way that you go about leading, how you go about leading, the two cards you play together is like, I'm gonna, this is what I think we should do, and here's the plan.

SPEAKER_00 7:14

Okay, right.

SPEAKER_02 7:14

Or here's the plan, I think it's a really good one. So you can kind of kind of play them, you know, almost simultaneously.

SPEAKER_00 7:20

Let's talk about that. Do you feel like that with me? Let's talk about that with my taking charge and going along. Yeah, okay. Tell them about that.

SPEAKER_02 7:28

So, so yeah, so I mean, I think that um, you know, when it comes to um for me, this is this is a new endeavor, right? So doing consultation work for me um is in this format and and focusing on it in in this way is new. Yeah. And so I'm very much benefiting from Piper's, no, we need to do this and here's the plan, and this, you know, we need to do this first, and and and and so it's really been a blessing um because you know, coming out of um, you know, a therapy background for a number of years now, um, and I also am a pro am a professor, yeah. Right. So I'm not um doing the consultation stuff or haven't in this in this way in quite some time. So so to have the guidance be like, no, here's here's the checkbox.

SPEAKER_00 8:09

We need to do this first and this and this and this has been but the drawback of that is, and we know this, I get a little a little pushy.

SPEAKER_02 8:18

Well, no, I I wouldn't say pushy, it's it's it's the because there's there's just so much to do, right? When you when you launch a business, um, you know, at times it's like, oh my gosh, that's a lot, that's a lot to think about. Um but because you've done it before, yeah, right, and that's your experience, it's like, no, this is this is coming from a place of I want Susan to be successful. I want, you know, and and these are the things that I found that work that help me be successful. Um, and so so yeah, it's not a pushy. It's you know, for me, yeah, you know, it's your lifestyle interacting with my lifestyle about trying to be good enough. Am I gonna be good enough? And so when I hear all the things that that I need to do to potentially be good enough, it's like, oh, that's a lot.

SPEAKER_00 9:00

Yeah. So well, and I'm thinking kind of about like the um, what is it, the five main domains for personality? What is it like neuroses and the yeah? Um so I guess what my mind goes to, am I perceived when I go into take charge? Am I going to be perceived as arrogant? Because I feel like I get that a lot in interactions. Is that what people get from me? Because I at the as she knows at my I'm I'm a weenie y'all. I worry about people, what they think about me, but I do. I want to take charge. I'm like, okay, but this is a really good plan. Here it is, A, B, C, and I have it all. So I don't know how is that perceived by others?

SPEAKER_02 9:41

So I would say that um people see you as capable, people see you as um intelligent, smart, you know what you're talking about. Um, because again, you kind of the cards, the two cards you play almost simultaneously are here's what I think we should do, and here's the plan, and here's what's gonna make us successful. Right. So, so the the way that um those two come across, particularly for for those who maybe need more approval or more recognition, you know, things like that, um, are gonna be like, you know, ooh, I don't, I don't know if I measure up. I don't know. And so I think what what happens is in that interaction, your lifestyle, their lifestyle, um, you know, is just creating in them this I don't know if I can compete with this. And so I think what you're feeling is is some of that, some of that hesitation perhaps on their part, and you're interpreting that like, am I being too bossy? Yeah, am I being too outspoken? Yeah, is that too much? But uh, but I think that ultimately what's happening when we look at all of your traits together, and again, we've only covered three. Yeah. So when we look at all of them together, there's other pieces here. Um, you know, that, and and again, it's it's your cards and how you play them. And then now imagine playing a game with somebody else, right? And they're trying to play their strengths and their cards. And so, you know, it may be just just a mismatch, or, you know, kind of your intention is one of kindness giving care. Um, but you're not gonna, you know, beat her on the bush. You're not gonna, you know, try to try to sweet talk it or fluff. I think the word you saw, I'm not gonna fluff.

SPEAKER_00 11:18

I'm not gonna fluff anybody. But I we were giggling about that this week. I had a client, she was asking me about a referral for her daughter, and she goes, I need someone like you. And I'm like, Well, like, what do you mean? She's well, I don't know, someone that's kind of nice. I was like, Did you just say I was kind of nice? And she started howling. She's like, No, no, no, I didn't mean it that way. But I wonder if that's because she sees that uh that that that scale of it. I mean, it's hilarious. And now she ends all her emails with you're kind of nice. So it was just a funny thing, but she picked up because I I I when I get safe, you know, feel safe with a client, I am more blunt because I think in my life, um, if I look back, okay, let's look back childhood lifestyle, I perceived not knowing. Like I just perceived, I don't, I don't know quite where I fit, I don't quite know where to go. And so for me, I'm I don't want to fluff people because I don't want them to ever wonder who is she? Where is she coming from? I don't, and I've actually had people say to me, You can't be that sincere, you can't be that authentic. And I'm like, okay, you know, but again, it's just like you said, it's my interaction with their lifestyle is not meshing, right? So that's interesting.

SPEAKER_02 12:31

Yeah, yeah. And that's and that's the reality, you know, when we think about communication and and where communication works or doesn't work, or who it works better with and who it doesn't, really what we're talking about is, you know, again, you're playing a card game. Yeah, and you're trying to play your cards and your strengths in a certain way, and they're trying to do the same thing. And it and it just, you know, leads to misunderstandings potentially.

SPEAKER_01 12:52

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 12:52

And so, you know, again, kind of having the awareness of this is who I am, and I bring it with me in every interaction I have. Um, you know, good good news, bad news. Yeah. Right. So then it's figuring out like, how is my stuff interacting with somebody else's stuff and creating this issue versus that's a really horrible human being?

SPEAKER_00 13:11

Yeah. And I was just thinking about my husband. He's super high on taking charge too. So I mean, we we we can really, I mean, my my boys are like, you both are so stubborn. So I'm I'm taking charge. No, I'm taking charge. I'm taking charge. My plan's better. So that's how he and I's lifestyles because sometimes she knows Scott too, my husband. So the taking charge, I think we both have that at times, and it's a lot taking charge in one room. But how do you all resolve it? We always, I mean, we always come back and we find compromise. Like, I like this of your plan, I like this of your plan, or we just compromise and say, okay, we'll go with your plan. Like we never, it's never a brawl. It's um we figure it out. Um, and we always go back to going along. We always go back to going along. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a good partnership.

SPEAKER_02 14:02

All right, cool. So that's taking charge. So now the next one of these main five um is the winning recognition scale.

SPEAKER_01 14:09

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 14:10

And so what this is tapping into is how much do you seek out and need approval and recognition from others? And that's higher scores. People who are higher on this have that need. Um, the strength that comes from that need is um you treat people with warmth, kindness, care, empathy because you're hoping to get it, right? So you kind of put out in the world what you hope to get back. Um, as scores go down on this, um, it points to people who are more internally driven. Like they don't need the pats on the back, they can do it for themselves. Um, and so that's where Piper sits. So her score was a 39. Um, and so that puts her kind of down um toward the lower end. So she the strength here again is kind of being more internally motivated. Um, half of her range box sits inside the shaded area, right? So we know that that can point to um tapping into that upper side. Um, but then the the other half sits outside. So we we're anchored on this lower end. So I would say that the strength for you, Piper, is you know, again, you can you can recognize when somebody needs that, and you can you can offer that to them, you can have that sense of empathy and and vocalize it. Yeah. Um, but then when it comes to um, you know, needing their approval or their recognition, you're you you kind of have this sense of like, no, I know I'm I'm okay. I'm good with myself. Um, and then the drawback side of being low on this is, you know, when you're interacting with somebody who's really neat needs that that recognition, because it's not you don't need it in the same way, it may not be your first thought to give it. Oof. So so then so that's the potential drawback side is is people could see you potentially, you know, you're asking about the the taking charge, could see you as cold or as or as a little standoffish because particularly if they are much higher on this scale, if they need the recognition and approval and they're kind of you know feeling you out to see, you know, is this somebody who's gonna give it to me? Um, they may then say, no, she's you know, she's too she's too aggressive or she's too hard or she's too bossy. Um when in reality it's not that. Yeah, it's just their need is not matching mine.

SPEAKER_00 16:22

You know, we were talking about this before we recorded, and I'm like, wait, what? I'm low on wanting recognition. I would have sworn this was high seven years ago. Because I think that was the last time we did this with me, it was like seven years ago. I I would have sworn it was higher. Um, so that shocked me. Um, and as we're sitting here talking about it, I think a couple things have happened in the last few years. One, finishing my master's, um, I had to overcome a lot of self-doubt. Um, I was going to a different university and I wanted to transfer to Liberty, but they made me take statistics, and I was so scared. And all I remembered growing up was I was stupid when it came to math. I mean, like utterly stupid. And like taking me to a hypnotherapist and like throwing up the four exams, like I'm dumb. And so going into statistics, I cannot tell you how afraid I was. I mean, I sobbed. My boys had helped me with algebra. Like, I just um, but so I went through that and then going through the master's program, and it was so healing because no longer I was like, oh, I'm not stupid. It only took me 44 lots of years to get to that point. But I think that was like a big because I was so shocked when you said to me, I'm like, wait, no, my wanting, no, my wanting recognition is really high. And you're like, no, it's really low. So I think that was kind of the thing that shifted over the years, is that I finally accepted I'm not stupid. And it, I mean, it just literally, it was a lifelong belief. And so, and and so it's kind of funny. I think the other aspect of it, maybe, and you can speak to this too, is my faith. Is that I'm so firmly rooted in my faith now that I'm like, okay, like I've told her, this is my mission, I don't have a choice, this is what I do, and I love it. So, is that part of do you think that's it?

SPEAKER_02 18:17

Or well, I I think it again, it comes down to what is your perception, what makes sense to you, right? So that's that's something to know about Adlerian psychology. So when you work with somebody who who uses Adlerian psychology in their work, um, it all comes back to the client's perception. That's what matters most. So, you know, I I may I may know a lot about this inventory and and and what I think it says, but ultimately what matters most more is what Piper's perception is. And and again, kind of what anybody who takes it and and goes through this process, what their perception is. And so for you, if you think that your groundedness, your your sense of being internally driven has faith as a component, then yeah, of course it does.

SPEAKER_01 18:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 18:59

So um, so yeah, I mean, I think that at the end of the day, the strength for you is I know I'm good, I know I'm okay. Yeah, um, I know I'll be okay. Um, and then you know, the drawback side is um, you know, perhaps the, you know, when you're left with an interaction and you're kind of like, I'm not sure what happened there. You know, I'm not sure what you know what to make of that. I'm not sure. Um, you know, kind of if that was someone who who now feels like I'm not, I'm not kind, right? Or I'm kind of nice. I'm kind of nice.

SPEAKER_00 19:31

And you know what's funny? I'm thinking about my youngest son, he'll say to me, I need my mom right now. Oh he'll vocalize, and I'm like, I am your mom. He's like, No, I need my mom. And he'll, I mean, he that kid, boy, he is my kid. He is so perceptive, and he's just what so he's so he's he feels that. And I think at times my husband feels it, and he'll be like, Hey, can can we approach me in a different way? I need a little bit more of the softness. So that's making me think about personal interactions that that definitely yeah, okay, I can see that. Yep. So interesting.

SPEAKER_02 20:07

So again, you you do have that piece of of the scale that sits in the shaded area, right? So maybe kind of what because your your planning is so strong and your take charges is is strong, and again, that's kind of where you spend a lot of your time is, you know, particularly in work and and managing the house, and and not that you do that alone. Scott's really, you know, it's it's a collaborative effort for for all of you. But I think what they're telling you is, you know, plans aside, can I can I just have you know, can I just have the the love? Can I just have the hug?

SPEAKER_00 20:41

Can I just have the and I'm like, no, we need to wash the dust, the the floorboards, we need to do this, we need to so yeah, uh-huh. We got that Mary Martha thing going on. Yeah, yeah, it's the Mary Martha thing.

SPEAKER_02 20:52

All right, yes. All right, so um the last one of these uh first five um is called the being cautious scale. And what this is measuring is how much um did you perceive life growing up to be challenging for there to be, you know, some conflict, um, and that's higher scores compared to people who are lower on this, whose perception is no life, I knew who to trust. Yeah, life was predictable, I knew what was gonna happen next. Um, and so you know, where your score sits is fully outside on the higher side of the shaded area. Yeah. Um, and so what that what that means to me is um that your perception of childhood was like, no, I didn't know, I wasn't sure. And so the strength that comes for people who have who experience that, and it and it could be it could be divorce, it could be moving a lot, it could be, you know, just general, you know, you know, conflict um among among the the adults in the in the home. It could also be alcoholism, it could also be neglect, abuse. I mean, so there so it kind of runs the gamut. Yeah. But what happens or what it always comes back to is again, what was your perception of it? And the interesting thing is, um, and I did consultation with a with a set of sisters um at two different times. And same, same parents, right, same household, but their perceptions about so different were very, very different. So somebody was high on this and somebody was low on this. And some of that just spoke to like one was an older and then some years had passed, the family got a little more stable, and then the other one came along. And so the younger was like, life was good. Yeah. And the older one was like, life sucked. Yes. Um, and so it just, you know, again, it just comes down to um to perception and and kind of the interactions of all those factors that create the personality traits. So, but anyway, back to back to Piper. So Piper, you know, kind of had this sense that life life was unpredictable. So the strength that comes is I gotta watch, I gotta observe. So Piper is very, very observant. The drawback side to being high is is you could also end up being hyper-vigilant. You could convince yourself or be looking for that next shoe to drop. Um anxiety.

SPEAKER_00 23:07

Ah, mm-hmm. There's my friend anxiety.

SPEAKER_02 23:11

Yes, yep. So the the strength that comes from being lower is you know, you perceive like it's it's gonna be okay, life's gonna work out. The drawback side when you have that belief or that perception is you can be hit blindsided and then not know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:24

Okay, right.

SPEAKER_02 23:25

Like I wasn't anticipating this, you know, now I'm completely, you know, beside myself, don't know what to do.

SPEAKER_00 23:31

Yeah, yeah. So with this being cautious, I you know, she and I were kind of debriefed a little bit before we did this, and I'm not surprised. I mean, again, I was I guess I was surprised with the wanting recognition and being cautious, but the more we talked about it makes sense. So my perception growing up was um I was unwelcome. Um my perception was my brother was the loved one. Um, and again, this is childhood perceptions, right? So mom, dad, I'm not being mean. Um but but so so and I was always I always felt like I I didn't fit. Um, I was a very fat child uh with the name Piper. I wore headgear, all of the things that set our personality. So I I didn't feel like I fit. I got picked on, I got bullied a lot. And so I can see that. And I didn't feel like I could necessarily go home and express this is what's happening. I grew up in a home where it was like pull yourself up by the bootstrap. It it wasn't there was there wasn't the I needed the love and affection, which is kind of interesting how I'm showing up there. Yeah, shoot. Okay, so now I'm I'm saying that as I talk out loud. Uh-huh. So I'm still doing the same stuff.

SPEAKER_02 24:46

Well, I think I think what you what you learned was I gotta handle my stuff. Yeah, yeah. I gotta handle this myself. Yeah, right. And so that independent streak, yeah, um, you know, that comes through in the winning recognition, that comes through and here's the plan we're gonna create, that comes through and let me watch and observe and figure out like, is there somebody safe here I can talk to?

SPEAKER_00 25:07

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Right. Or do I need to be, you know, the belonging and social interest, you know, kind of keep myself. Um so that again, you're you're speaking to the interplay now. You're speaking to how these kind of inform and influence each other, um, you know, over, you know, seconds. Yeah, right. It can happen like that. Um, so so yeah. Um, so because this is your highest, yeah, and this is something else that um that comes into the interpretation. We left, we talk about you know what was your highest score on this chart of these main five, and what was your lowest? So Piper's highest is the being cautious. So she meets the world with, let me watch, let me, let me observe, let me see, see kind of where I need to be. Um, and so Piper's one of those people that if if something's off for you, she knows it and she'd be like, What's wrong? What's going on? There's something there's something, there's something not right here for you. What is it? Um, and and I think from from that, that ties right and beautifully with the people in your life that you care about, you know. Yeah. Right. So you're observing and you're watching, and because you've nurtured that relationship and the one-on-one interactions, you sense it.

SPEAKER_00 26:16

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:16

Right. So there's the strength side. Um now think about your clients.

SPEAKER_00 26:20

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 26:21

Right. So if they come in from one session to the next and something is a little off, you're gonna notice it. Yeah, I can see it on them. And so then that that speaks right to that that introverted nature. Okay, let's let's talk about that. Tell and and you attend to them. Um, and so again, it's not that you're not, if we think about you're wanting recognition, yeah. Um, you can be empathetic and empathetic and compassionate and and caring, and that comes through because of the one-on-one interaction and because of what you're observing in them.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Okay, okay. What I can say too, um, like I said, oh, my anxiety, and she's known me for a lot of long time. I I have had to work on my anxiety because of that, and I can feel it if I especially a group of people, we're back to that. I'm watching every single person. And it's not to say that I get it right every time. I might be perceiving, like I know she and I've had interactions with other people in the community. I'm like, did you see that? Like, they thought I was a moron. She's like, No, that's not what I got at all. I'm like, no, that's what it was. But I get I get very anxious because then I go back to do they like me? What are they thinking of me? Did I have food in my teeth? Like, what's wrong? And then my anxiety, I mean, goes through the roof. The other thing, it's yeah, it's just it's being able to see the things. Sometimes I'm like, I really wish I could turn this off. I really there's I know it's a gift. You've told me, you're like, Piper, this is a good thing, but at times, yeah, it can be very painful. And then I go down the anxiety and I'm not being logical at all, you know.

SPEAKER_02 27:55

And so, um And that's that that's what I call the domino effect, right? So when when you're highest, um, you know, again, think about two sides of the same coin. So it's the strength you use most often. Um, and so when it stops working or when it it's ending up on the drawback side, then it creates this cascade of turning all the other cards over or turning all the other coins over, and then you're like, you know, you're finding yourself retreating.

SPEAKER_01 28:20

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 28:20

Um, and you're like, I don't know, I don't understand why I feel the need to retreat right now. And um, you know, the the plans seem to kind of go out the window and we can't figure out what to do next. And and then, you know, I don't I don't know what to say. Yeah. Right. And and so then it's like all of all of those strengths that had been, you know, showing up for you, then just turn over.

SPEAKER_00 28:40

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 28:41

And so then what we what we need to figure out is how do we then flip them back? How do we get back to the strength side? And so most of the time, what we can look to is the lowest as the catalyst to get us back to the strength side. And so your lowest is that wanting recognition score. And so what you come back to eventually, yeah, is is the okay, I'm good. I know, I know I'm good in God's eyes. I know I'm, you know, I my heart was in the right place, right? And then the self-talk starts. Okay. And then I go to planning. And then we jump back quickly to like, okay, well, here, you know, I've lost time. Let's let's get let's get back to it.

SPEAKER_00 29:21

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:21

So that makes sense.

SPEAKER_00 29:23

Interesting.

SPEAKER_02 29:24

All right. All right. So um, so those are the main five. And so now we are you doing okay? Yeah, I'm doing okay. I'm doing good to take a break. Um, so now we have I'm gonna show you this side. So we've been talking about these top five that got plotted on the chart. These five down here um are supplemental, they serve a slightly different purpose. There's there's still for four of them strengths and drawback sides associated. Um, but when it comes to the ones that you use most often, it's gonna be those first five.

SPEAKER_01 29:57

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 29:58

Um, so the the next two we're gonna talk about are the H scale, which stands for harshness, and the S scale, which stands for softness. So we have harshness and softness. And these were designed by the test makers uh to be kind of this inverse relationship. If one is high, the other's low, and vice versa.

SPEAKER_01 30:15

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:15

And some of that was, you know, in terms of a checks and balances, like how is how is somebody answering this? Are they answering it truthfully? Are they answering it in a way that that makes sense? And so, you know, you would not expect somebody to be high on both, right? Right. Because then it's like, that doesn't quite make sense, or low on both. So people can meet in the middle, right, and kind of have have scores be, you know, close in terms of the middle, but you wouldn't expect both high or both low.

SPEAKER_01 30:43

Okay. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:44

Um, so your age score really what H is measuring is how bad was it growing up. So it kind of connects to that being cautious scale.

SPEAKER_01 30:51

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 30:51

Um, and so you're at a 14, the high cutoff for this is an 18. Okay. So your score is kind of in the middle.

SPEAKER_01 30:58

Yeah. Right.

SPEAKER_02 30:58

So even though you're being cautious is is higher, um, to not meet that high cutoff, I think is okay. Yeah. Um, and so then from there, we jump to the softness and we look at softness. And um, this is a scale that could be as high as like 25 and could be as low as five and you're to 12.

unknown 31:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 31:17

So in the middle. So again, kind of here in the middle. So so that's what we see is, you know, for Piper, the score is kind of being here in this middle area. Um, when I see people who are higher on being cautious, like Piper, um, and the middle of the road, softness, um, softness measures optimism. So it's tapping into how optimistic are you? Um, and so it makes sense that if somebody had a really tough childhood and their perception of childhood is hard and I didn't know who to trust, they're not, they're likely not going to be real high on optimism. Um, Piper, though, is mil in the middle, so she's not low, like we might anticipate. So then what what I point to with that is there's a there's a strength here that for many people kind of sits to the side, and we use it as the last resort. Optimism?

SPEAKER_00 32:12

So I'm negative?

SPEAKER_02 32:14

Well, no, it's not that you're negative, it's that it's it's one of those you're gonna try to play the other cards first. Okay, got it. Um, and so because it's not a 25, you're not like this sucks, but it's gonna be awesome in a minute. Yeah, you're gonna be able to do it.

unknown 32:28

You know.

SPEAKER_02 32:29

So, softness has this unique um little piece about, you know, is it gonna be okay? And so your belief is yes. Um, it's just not the first card you play. Gotcha. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_01 32:42

Yeah. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:43

So again, it it comes, it comes out of that interaction of, you know, and and the strength of watching and observing. Um, I think you're the way that you know you're gonna be okay, the way it shows up first more is in that winning recognition.

SPEAKER_00 32:58

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 32:58

Right? Being able to do this for yourself.

SPEAKER_00 33:00

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:00

Like I know it's gonna be okay because I'm okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:02

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:02

Right. Okay. And as you said, there's faith in here too. Yeah, faith is everything in my life. Okay. So I think faith shows up also for some people, they talk about it more in terms of being optimistic. Well, I know God's got it. Okay. And so, so again, it so there may be components of that of a faith for you in this one. Yeah, but it probably gets used more for you as a as an assurance of like, I'm okay.

SPEAKER_00 33:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:27

Okay. So I would put that in the 1A recognition more so than your softness. Okay. Does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 33:32

That makes sense. Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 33:33

Okay. So aside from that, there's not a whole lot more that H gives us or that or that S gives us.

SPEAKER_00 33:39

So and what does H look at?

SPEAKER_02 33:41

H, how bad was it?

SPEAKER_00 33:42

Okay. That's right.

SPEAKER_02 33:43

So there's not really a strength that comes through that. It really You're kind of validating the other scales. Exactly. Okay. Yeah. So that's its purpose. H and S kind of have this, but S by itself has this unique little piece about optimism. Gotcha.

SPEAKER_00 33:55

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 33:56

All right. So then the next scale we'll talk about is called the entitlement scale. High scores on this point to people who believe and perceive they had special attention, special treatment growing up. Um, and then scores that are lower on this point to like, well, no, I don't think I got that. And it's either kind of a wondering, or it's just matter of fact, yeah, that's the way life was. Um, or for some people, it could even be like a little chip on their shoulder. Yeah, and I'm a little bitter about it.

SPEAKER_01 34:24

Yeah.

SPEAKER_02 34:24

Um, so so high scores would be like greater than 21, low scores are less than 12, and Piper's score is less than 12. She's at a nine. And so I would start by saying that in being on the lower end, the strength that comes from that is, well, because I didn't feel special or get that attention, I know that, you know, life is what I'm gonna make of it. Yeah. And so I totally, yeah, have a totally very realistic view that you know, I get out, get out of it what I put into it. Yep. So that's the strength side. The drawback side then is when good things happen, do you believe they're for you? Do you doubt it? You answer that. So that's the drawback side is when when you're not used to getting good things or having good things happen, then when they do happen, it's like this isn't for me. And it's just kind of pushing away.

SPEAKER_00 35:14

Is that the um the crux of people pleasing? Like well, or the the um the constant striving. Is that what that is? Because I find you know, you know that about me. I I and we're all everybody in my life's like pump the break. So is that is that how that shows up with like my striving? Because I'm like, well, it's not I I didn't really do good enough. Is that what that is?

SPEAKER_02 35:37

I think I think it comes back to I think that what you're talking about anchors more in the going along. Okay. And did I did I get the expectations right? Did I and and and again think about being cautious? Did I read the situation correctly? Did I did I make the plan to meet the demand? Is it right? So you kind of come back to is my plan good enough? Is my plan good enough? Okay, versus am I good enough? Oh, okay. So I think I think that am I good enough kind of finds its way in there in terms of self-talk. Yeah. But from a from a a distinct trait standpoint, you know, there's the the way entitlement shows up is more it is what it is.

unknown 36:17

Okay.

SPEAKER_00 36:19

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 36:20

So I just I roll with the punches. So yeah, so you've learned, and again, so being cautious, right? So not sure what what's gonna come next. So I gotta watch, I gotta observe. And then because in in your mind, your perception of childhood was like, well, you know, anything good is for my brother. Right.

SPEAKER_00 36:38

So I'm just gonna, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 36:41

Yeah, I'm just not gonna expect.

SPEAKER_00 36:43

And then I'm not disappointed.

unknown 36:45

Hmm.

SPEAKER_00 36:46

That's very true. And that is how I approach most of my interactions. Right. Because that's how I guard myself.

SPEAKER_02 36:52

Got it. So, so yeah, so that's that's how you use these cards, right? It's like, let me, and and that's why it might take you a moment when something good happens to be like, is that really is that why I worry when's the shoe gonna drop? That's the being cautious. Okay, that's being cautious. Okay, but you know, I I think you know, as we think about as you were waiting to hear about your LAPC coming through, um, it was is this good thing gonna happen? Is it gonna happen? Is it gonna happen? I don't know.

SPEAKER_00 37:21

Yeah, it was a mess. That was a big mess. It's not coming, it's not coming.

SPEAKER_02 37:28

Yeah, so that's so again, that's where you know that that doomsday, you know, being cautious scale tips the dominoes over.

SPEAKER_00 37:36

Chicken little, I'm chicken little. Ah turned into chicken little. Okay.

SPEAKER_02 37:43

But so again, if we think about you know, the strength side of, you know, I can take a realistic view. Yeah. Um, I don't need special attention, I don't need to be the center of of of the audience. I don't, I don't need that. Right?

SPEAKER_01 37:56

Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 37:56

Um, and so that's you know, the strength side is like, no, life, life is gonna give us and we gotta make, you know, if it gives us lemons, we gotta figure out how we're gonna make lemonade.

SPEAKER_00 38:05

And here's here's my plan to do it for how I'm gonna make the lemonade. Okay, all right. That makes sense.

unknown 38:10

Huh.

SPEAKER_00 38:11

It's so funny the the word entitlement. Yeah. I mean, so some of these scales, like to me, is