SPEAKER_00 0:03

Welcome back to the Dynamic Mind Podcast. On this episode, myself, Piper Harris, along with our director, Susan Belange, invite you to join us for our annual reflection. A time to look back on the ups, the downs, and the many lessons we've gathered from 2024. This year has been a journey filled with challenges that tested our resilience and moments that reminded us of the strength of connection and clarity. Together we'll talk about who's sitting at our table for those who support, challenge, and inspire us. And how you consider who's at your table for the life you truly want to live. We'll share insights on building intentional relationships, setting boundaries, and creating the kind of environment that fosters growth, whether in your personal life, professional world, or both. So pull up a chair and join us for this episode of Dynamic Mind Podcast. It's time to reflect, refocus, and step into the new year with purpose. Podcast, whoever, if you're watching, listening, welcome. We're very excited to be here. So we just wanted to jump right in. Okay. So uh we were talking about Thanksgiving, and um, we were talking about a blog that I'd written about who's sitting at your table, and we thought, what a great analogy to kind of kick off or reflect on this year, and then what we're gonna do. Yeah, about next year. So this is our question. Have you ever thought about who is at your table, not just in life, but in your growth and your challenges and in your dreams? And so that's what we want to tackle today for our annual vodcast, blogcast, whatever you want to call it. Um, so we're hoping that we can be pretty vulnerable with you today. We've got our Kleenex available. Um, and so uh just would really love for you guys to um, you know, join in with us and and send us questions, comments. We would love to hear from you. So why don't you kick things off, talk a little bit about what we're going into.

SPEAKER_03 2:07

Oh, okay. So um, and reading your blog post, um, you know, certainly it it brings to mind, you know, loved ones that have passed away. And I know your kind of focus was um was on grief because many of your clients seem to be really dealing with that this year. Yeah. Um, and so that kind of you know brought to mind, you know, for me, who who was at my table, who's no longer at my table, yeah, um, who would I want at my table? And so I think, you know, kind of thinking about um, you know, guess that um I would love to have. And I think, you know, going back in history, right? Yeah. If we could start there and think, who would you want to have at your table? You know, that maybe some historical figure, somebody you never even, you know, would think about. And so for me, of course, I'm like Adler. Adler's got to be at my table. Always Adler. So I would definitely want Adler to be uh to be at my table and just um, you know, have that opportunity to just ask those questions, like, how did you come up with this thing? Why did, you know, why does this um make so much sense? And how did, you know, how did that come to you? So I would just love to ask those kinds of questions. Um, what about you? Is there anybody?

SPEAKER_00 3:13

Yeah, you know, it's funny when I was thinking about that, I actually thought about Freud just simply because he's the grandfather of psychology. And the other thing I think too, right, but it's I know this is the whole Adler thing. But actually, what I think is fascinating about him is he's taken a lot of heat over the years, right? Because everything's about sex, sex with your mom, sex with your dad, all the weird stuff. Why Adler was like, Woo, too much money. We're not going there. We're not going there. But I mean, I just think it would be fascinating to have that mind at the table and go, where did that, where did that obsession come from? One answer, opium. Oh yeah, drugs. But yeah, so when I was thinking about like psychological minds, like past minds, I think that would just be fascinating to just sit in his presence. If I was to think about a current psychological mind I love is Jordan Peterson. I love how his mind works. Sometimes I can't follow it. Um, but I find it fascinating. So I think just to have those those fascinating conversations and and dig into why we love what we do with working with people, you and consulting me and counseling, it's like these are those those thought makers and that have pushed us forward in in what we do.

SPEAKER_03 4:24

So yeah, you know, as many times as you quote Marcus Aurelius. Yes. Oh, he's definitely at my my table, which is you know, many of Adler's thoughts, at least, you know, there's there's some thought um going all the way back to some of those early writings that Adler himself wrote and others who have you know translated his writings, um, that seems to be a character, um, you know, a philosopher back from that time that um Adler certainly, you know, must have read or must have heard of. Um so it's just so funny whenever you share one of those on your well, the stoics are so fascinating.

SPEAKER_00 4:59

And and what's what I love about it, why I love Stoics, Marcus Aurelius, or if we put Socrates or anybody on the street. Yes, is that their whole focus is that we do not have to be at the um we don't have to be a victim of our feelings, of our thoughts, like our circumstance, our circumstance. Like it gives us power, it gives us strength, and and we might not be able to control everything. It, you know, life happens, we can't control certain things, but how we react, how we choose to live moving forward, I think that's what I love so much about stoicism and why it and it's rooted in CBT, you know, stoicism, CBT are like this because it's about our thoughts. Let's control the thoughts, then we control which path we take. You know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 5:46

And I think that's again why CBT and Edlerian, you know, are are you know certainly related to each other. Yep. Um so so yeah, so that's as I think about you know, some of those historical minds, those are the the folks that come come to mind for me. Yeah. Um you know, as I think about other mentors, um, you know, so if we move to kind of the the sense of of loss or or you know, kind of addressing that, like I would definitely want um Richard Watts. Um, you know, he's he's one of those big guys in the field of Adelarian psychology. He also kind of transcended um the whole counseling field over the last you know 20, 30 years. Um but the the thing that I would want is not the necessarily the academic Richard Watts, who was phenomenal.

SPEAKER_00 6:38

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 6:38

Um, just the way that he could write and just prolific writer, prolific reader, um probably one of the most well-read Atlarians I think I've ever encountered. But I'd want the the personal friend Richard, who you knew existed this this amazing at academic side. And then this is the same guy. I I would want the Richard who would tell the fart jokes. Yes. Um I would want the Richard who um probably one of my favorite memories at Lyrian's, right? We talk about early memories all the time. This isn't so early, but um, for one of the meetings that we had with the board of directors for NASAP, and we were up until 11 or 12, just goofing around, um, chatting, talking about this, that, and the other. And all of a sudden he finds this app on his phone that's just fart acquaintance. And so laughing until you hurt, yeah. Yes, like that's the stuff that comes to mind when I think about Richard. That's fun. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 7:32

I I remember thinking of spart jokes. I remember lovely topic. I mean, hey, listen, this is this is real. We're real people, and this is what we do. I maybe I won't tell that story. Oh, come on. It was no, I mean, I was remembering in high school, if we're thinking about the people that have been at our table, present, past, future, all of that. I had a dear friend Stacey. Hey Stace, love you. Um, that I grew up with her family, and we went to the store, and her mom was kind of a stoic, like she didn't show a lot. And I found a fart doll. And I tased her through the store, farting noises. And I just remember her mom howling and looking at me like, stop it, Viper, stop it. But she couldn't help but crack up. And I'm like, farting is the universal humor. I mean, it just is. So we digress. Yes, psycho. It's good for us to laugh. Psychologically, we're supposed to laugh.

SPEAKER_01 8:21

So exactly.

SPEAKER_00 8:22

But yeah, I mean, if you think about um the grief, like talking about that, um, that was one of the things that she and I were talking about with this podcast, reflecting on our table, who who sat at our table, and like some of the loved ones, obviously, Susan's one of them at my table. Likewise, we're traversing this thing together. Family, of course, my husband, my sons. But if you follow me, I had Zebedee, uh, the therapy pup. He came into our lives. Oh gosh, when did we adopt? We got him uh in March, I believe. And so Zeb was a um golden retriever, and the whole plan was to get him trained. I did my training for certification and start putting him through to be a therapy dog. And unfortunately, we lost him this year. So, hey, FYI, if you have black bark in your yard, take it out right away. Um, just kind of a little caveat. Um, black bark is oftentimes dyed with cocoa bark, which is highly toxic, but smells yummy to dogs. And so ultimately he died. We had to put him down this year to due to all of this stuff. And that was the grief that it's so hard. We were talking about people need to understand that we're going to be juggling a lot of different things in a year. So we get it when you come to her and your business is a mess and you're trying to figure out communication patterns, or you're coming in here to me and you've got trauma that you're trying to work through, but then life is also still happening, and so we have to learn how to handle it all, handle it all, balance it. Yeah, it's hard. I mean, the day that Zebedee the the vet called and said he's septic, I literally that got the call as the client is walking in. And I had to, okay. I I had to juggle, I had to balance, and it was very difficult. It was very, very difficult. But all of us do it just because we're in this profession, we're not immune to the grief that hits us too.

SPEAKER_03 10:20

Right. And I think it's important. Um, you know, certainly I we we both strive to be real, to be, you know, authentic, yeah, versus, you know, put on put on errors, as they say, or you know, try to present a different picture. Yeah. Um, and so I think that's important. I think, you know, clients really resonate with that. They appreciate that sense of, I know, I know who Piper is because she's gonna get to me real. She's gonna get to me straight.

SPEAKER_01 10:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 10:46

Um, and that's the same thing for me with my clients. Like, you know, even if and and identifying, you know, kind of what somebody's pain points are, I'm not gonna sugarcoat it because that doesn't help anybody. Yeah, you know, so so presenting is like, well, here's here's the situation, how are we going to address it? What's gonna be the movement out of the situation? Yeah. So yeah, for sure, for sure.

SPEAKER_00 11:05

Yeah, we we do. We both want to be that way with our our clients that they know this is who we are, art jokes and all.

SPEAKER_03 11:12

So let me claim too, since you claim family. Um, certainly, you know, my husband, my two girls, you know, this has been a year of adjustment for me with my oldest going off to college. She's done phenomenally well. She'll be home tomorrow from her first semester. Um, and she's yeah, she's she's living her best life, and that's so amazing to see. But you know, certainly a year of transition.

SPEAKER_00 11:31

And it's grief. You had a mourn. She would text me and say, Piper, she's leaving again. Will you please pray? The mama worries, you know, and so yeah, yeah, traverse that.

SPEAKER_03 11:42

I I will give a shout out to Life 360. We still kind of watch her as she drives to and from uh her school because it's about six hours away. So yeah. Um that's a long haul. It's a long haul. It is, but she's she's done so so well and and just so proud of the young young woman she's becoming. And my my sophomore in high school um equally is you know venturing off into new territories, looking at drama and things like that in her school.

SPEAKER_00 12:05

So um, so yeah, it's fun, yeah. Watching our our wives grow together here in the practice, but then I mean, of course, life doesn't start so or stop. So we're watching our kiddos grow and change minds going off to college next year and like all the things, all the things, big breakups, you know, all of the stuff that you guys are you are balancing a lot too. So it's just kind of interesting when you think about who was at our table this year. You know, another thing that we talked about um with this blog, you know, we've got people at the table, the chairs represent the people. Then we've got the place settings and the utensils. The place settings are really roles and responsibilities. Um, and so maybe we talk about those roles and we've kind of talked about, you know, the balancing, the juggling, the roles and responsibilities, but that's what those place settings are. So what would you think are maybe the new hats that you've put on that that you've experienced and kind of speak to that?

SPEAKER_03 13:07

Yeah, so you know, I think for me, the one of the other things that I do um professionally also is I'm an executive director for the North American Society of Edelyan Psychology, NASAP for short. Um, and so figuring out how to manage my time, growing, growing this business, growing dynamic growth counseling and consulting services, and also making sure that NASAP continues to do well and prosper and thrive and grow, um, at least in the role that I bring to the table. Yeah. Um, so I think for me, it's just you know, figuring out, you know, something as as basic as, you know, which days am I gonna work on which things, um, and making sure that I'm devoting you know enough time, you know, to each thing. So um, so that's been you know the hat that I think, well, since last year, you know, has has has changed and morphed. Um, and you know, trying to figure out again, you know, what's gonna make the most sense, what's gonna help me grow my business. Um and I think, you know, with with that, learning new skills too. Um, so, you know, venturing into from another mentor of mine, um a current mentor, um, venturing into um speaking engagements and those kinds of things as a way to get you know, get me in front of other other groups of people. Um, and so that's something else that I'm trying to figure out is what does it look like if I have a speaker hat on versus a director hat versus a consultant hat and so on.

SPEAKER_00 14:34

Yeah, and I think maybe if you're new to this, so you understand our dynamic, uh, we are different in our roles and responsibilities when it comes to a stereotypical practice. Um so what's wonderful about what we do is we've broken the mold, which we'll talk about that. Um, but what's so what we have is she's the consulting arm and I'm the counseling arm. So we both are building out those arms while bringing them together, if that makes sense. And so that's why dynamic growth counseling and consulting, untangled mind, is the dynamic mind approach, so that we are addressing concerns, not just in individual couples, whatever, mental health-wise, but we really want to affect change for professionals. We don't want to leave them out of the mix, and so that's what we're talking about. We have so many different hats, and then on top of it, running a small business is daunting.

SPEAKER_03 15:32

Oh my gosh, daunting, exciting and wonderful, but yeah, I mean it's a whole it's a whole new set of skills, it's a whole new set of plates, it's a whole new Yeah, it's like, hey Susan, I need to talk to you about this counseling concern, and then hey Susan, should we do a flyer?

SPEAKER_00 15:46

Should we do like an advertising? I mean, like we're constantly oh, take this hat, put that down, oh this hat, put it. I mean, it and that's kind of our conversations is ching, ching, ching, ching. I mean, because it's the two of us developing a uh a sense of community, yeah, and it's so diverse, yeah. You know, it's it's a lot, yeah. It's a lot of roles and responsibilities. Yeah, you know, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 16:09

So I I think what drives both of us is wanting to be of help to as many people as we possibly can. And and certainly, you know, from a from my business, you know, getting into businesses and and and doing more consulting, you know, to me that's I get to interact with more people than um than just you know one at a time, which you know, the the counseling side of it was great for me, but you know, for me, this is like the next generation. Um, how can I get get the word out there about belonging and why it's so crucial and what happens when we don't feel it. And then I think for you, kind of doing it one at a time. So I think there's you know, again, ways that we, you know, we we strive to create this community, at least in, you know, in this East Cobb area, and spreading the good news about um, you know, hey, there's good help, hey, there's you know, ways to continue to learn and deepen insight into yourself so you can be more productive.

SPEAKER_00 17:01

And yeah, yeah. And and I think what's great about why we're so unique is because um a lot of people aren't ready for therapy. We know that. We get it. And so what's great though is that then she can bring her wisdom into executives' offices, into school districts, into you know, um large networking groups. I mean, that's and that is really what we're trying to do. What is the way that we can affect the greatest change? We know it's not one-on-one in here, not everybody wants to do that, right? Right, right, and not everybody wants to go to giant networking groups like me, they make me very nervous. Um, I'll do them, but they're not my favorite. So, you know, that's it's definitely you know what we're moving toward. But it's been difficult, it's it's a lot of work, yeah, it's exhausting. Yeah. So anything we want to touch on in terms of the professional growth guests, yeah. So when we think about professional growth guests, like who's at our table? We talked about the roles and responsibilities more on the table guests. I think for me, um, some people that have taken a seat at my table um a lot this year, I I do trauma, anxiety, grief, and I love CBT. But then I want to teach people more about the brain and body, and I just I love what I learn. And so I invested in professional growth with Dr. Sweeten. Um, and she I just finished my neuropsychotherapy certification with her. Yeah, it's so cool. Except some of y'all think of some of the stuff I'm doing is weird, but that's okay. I had a guy lay on the door last week. Um, but I mean, I really that is one of the professional guests that I've I've brought to the table. I want to invest in that because I don't want to be a one-trick pony. I think that's a lot of it.

SPEAKER_01 18:45

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 18:45

And how am I supposed to affect change in your your life and in your mind if I can't help you regulate your body and your brain? Like, I have to have that. So that's been a big one. Um, and then Dr. Rogers, I always she laughs. So, Dr. Rogers, I adopted him. I met him at Liberty University, and I basically was like, You're mine, I'm never letting go of you. And he's tough. Um, I had him for psychopathology, and I would come to her. I'm like, Oh my gosh, he's terrible, he's so mean to me. And then I would learn so much. But so a couple times this year, I get anxious. Money. Um, I get very anxious, and then I start the shotgun effect. And so I come to her and she's calming, she's my calming force, and like, well, let's talk this through. What do you think of this? I go to Dr. Rogers, he's like, knock that crap off, Piper. Like, you've got 12 minutes, figure this out. So he's, I mean, he's he's a toughie on me. I mean, he'll tell me, he's like, You're just acting anxious, stop it. Like, so I just love the balance that I get between Susan and then Dr. Rogers. I'm I'm I'm so grateful for him and the relationship that we're going because he he kicks me in the butt when I need it. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 19:58

Well, so so this just popped into my head. So I'm gonna I'm gonna share it first and then come back to my my other thought. So um, I would certainly put you in a in a different seat at the table too, because I'm I'm a product of my generation and Instagram and these kinds of things doesn't I know you hate it, but it doesn't come well easy for me at all. And so I'm like, what's the difference between a real and a story? And and shoot, like I meant to include the link and I must have chosen the wrong thing. And so Piper comes along and says, you need to do it this way, or you need to hear it. I I added it for you. Yeah, let me just go on and do that for you. So so I I I certainly appreciate that and kind of having the um, you know, looking at things from a yeah, the more you have stuff going out there, the bigger presence that you start to get. And so that that's been super helpful. Um, the other person kind of in this role for me is is Kevin, um Kevin O'Connor, who um is an executive coach and an amazing speaker and and and human being in his own right. He's up in the Chicago area. Um, but I was fortunate enough to um to bid on and win um a series of consultations for the next year. Um, and so I was kind of pushed, nudged in this direction by another friend um and said, you really should, you know, buy this or you know, bid on this. And so I bid on it and I won it. Um, and it's been a just a wonderful.

SPEAKER_00 21:18

It's been awesome to see how much you've changed, like your growth with him. It's been huge. So yeah, he's thanks, Kevin. It's been awesome seeing her.

SPEAKER_03 21:27

Yeah. So so yeah, I would definitely put Kevin at at the at the table and um, you know, certainly moving myself in the direction of what do I have to give, um, what blessings can I bring, you know, from a speaking standpoint.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

So when I think about like people at our table, and I want you all to think about that, thinking about your Thanksgiving table, your Christmas table. I know this time of year can be very difficult for some. Yeah, but when we reflect on those people that are sitting at our table, it really does allow for um just, I mean, growth and introspection as you're talking about like And what he's brought, and like Dr. Rogers for me. I think about past people that are sitting at my table, but I didn't even think about it until just now. And so I was thinking about like my big sister, Krista. She passed away years ago. But just thinking about she's been at my table the whole time because she she was that first kind of taste of uh supporting me through, like you have. Like I've known Susan for a long time. She's always supported what I've done. But Krista was like that first one because I met her, she's my camp counselor in grade school or middle school, I guess it was. So, but she was that first one that really started molding that. So she's always been at the that that chair's empty. She's no longer with us, but it's not empty because she's always with me. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:46

And that's Roy Kern for me.

SPEAKER_00 22:47

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 22:48

Um, you know, that person who basically started me on this whole path of Adlerian psychology because prior to going to Georgia State, I had no idea, you know, except for the paragraph in my intro psych textbook. Never a lot. Yeah. So I mean, it was it was totally um, from my view, a God moment, you know, to end up at Georgia State and to be put on the journal of individual psychology, learning about Adlerian psychology from the get-go. Um, so Roy passed away a couple years ago, and so he's he will always have a seat. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 23:17

And what's really neat too, let's talk about new seats, is that I'm mentoring a gal from Liberty University. I was I was like, oh yeah, I forgot I signed up for that. And she came and met with us last week, and it's so neat because she wants to learn all at Lyrian, and you should have seen this one. She was like, I will tell you anything. Don't believe the textbooks, you know. But but Felicia, she's yeah, starting to be with us, and we're gonna both mentor her. And it's just so fun. This is like a second career for her. She's stepping into mental health counseling, and it's just so cool because we brought her in, we had lunch, and she hung out, and like this was I mean, like, I'm I'm sent in my way. She's been telling me for years I'm at Larry, and I'm like, okay, Susan, I know. But Felicia was like, yes, and she it was so awesome to see. I mean, she just was like, whatever you need, I'm right there. And let me tell you all about it in 10 minutes. And we were like scouring the bookshelf. What book can we start her with? No, this is not good enough. And I'm like, that's someone you started me on. It's not good enough for her. I'm like, okay. I mean, it was pretty, it was pretty funny. So it's neat too, thinking about um, when you think about your table, the people that have impacted you, maybe they're not at the table anymore. Maybe you are grieving this this season. It's your first time with some out somebody without someone at that table. But what are they leaving with? And then even though they're not at the table anymore, that that loss, if we can navigate it, can invite in new, like this mentor. Yeah, and that's being open to the grief. I hate to say that. Like, I miss Zebi. I would never think that a dog, I love dogs, y'all, but he's wrecked our family. I mean, it's it's been difficult. The loss of him, because he came to three sessions too. I even had clients that didn't know him and cried. I'm like, what the heck? This is my dog. Why are you crying? But but it's opened my heart up to going, okay, that grief has left something, and I want to invite something else in. So, like with this gal that I'm mentoring, I've been blessed to have her mentoring me all these years. I had Krista when I was a little girl. I want to, I Christ is not here. I want to, I want to do more. And so that's if we can look at those empty chairs as a real opportunity to maybe not fill the chair, but fill someone else's empty chair.

SPEAKER_03 25:43

Right. So as you were filled and blessed, now it's our turn to kind of fill somebody else with all of that goodness that we got from that person. So yeah, for sure. So important. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

So socially interested. It there we go. Adlerion. I love it. So we um talked about this conversation, and uh in light of being very authentic and vulnerable with the year that she and I have had, we thought we'd talk about the unwelcome guests at our table. And we know you all have them. Maybe it's you know, your crazy Uncle Bob, um, or maybe it's um the trauma of a family member. Maybe you've lost a job, and this is that unwelcome guest at your table. Maybe it's frankly an addiction, you know, maybe it's a habit that you're not breaking. Yeah, we all have unwelcome guests at our table, and some of them are a lot more real than we would like to look at. Um, and so Susan and I had a very large unwelcome guest at our table, and we wanted to share it with everybody because we've we've gotten through it. Yes. So um, when did all of that start? When was the first April we started getting weird stuff? March, something like that. Yeah. So April or March, we started seeing some odd activity on our websites and getting odd emails. Um, and then about a month later, we got a notice from the state of Georgia that someone had filed allegations against us. Um, and what was the original allegation? Because they changed it.

SPEAKER_03 27:28

It was uh Well, so yeah, well, the original allegation was um that um you were running a private practice by yourself.

SPEAKER_00 27:37

By my yes, that was what it was. And we were shocked. It's now granted, we're doing things differently than most people do it. She sees me as a peer, she's still the director of our our business, like, but we're peers. We're we want to grow together. That's the whole point.

SPEAKER_03 27:54

Yeah, it's a this relationship versus a this exactly, which is very Elyrian. Idlerians believe in egalitarianism and that you don't need to have a one-up, one-down relationship for people to grow or for there to be an understanding about roles.

SPEAKER_00 28:06

Yeah, yeah. And and so, and you know, just for us, we did it all right. We had an attorney build this, like, please read this. We know this is out of the box, like we really want to do this the right way. So, all that to be said, we were called to the state. Um, and because of the allegations, we had an idea of where these were coming from. We're like, no, we've done it all right. So we hired an attorney. Um, that's not cheap, especially for us. We're the two of us, and so um we went through months of hell of we we haven't done anything. Finally, we went to a board meeting with our attorney, with the whole state board, with the state's attorney, um, and we were put under the microscope for we don't know what. And ultimately, what happened is there were false allegations. We changed a few things, wording on websites. I mean, that's truly what it was. And um, we they said, Well, you can't have her as a director and as clinical supervision. Okay, so we got a new clinical supervisor. Um, but that's really what it was.

SPEAKER_03 29:22

But it was um talk about balancing yeah, well, you know, when your character is called into question, you know, or your years of experience are called into question with no other data shared or explanation um besides, you know, looking at, you know, basically just websites. Oh one or two pages on your website. Yeah. Um, you know, that was really hurtful. That was um, you know, again, I I'll I'll go under the microscope because I have nothing to hide, but but to to receive back, you know, kind of what needed to be fixed, um, and it was it was that minor stuff, it just 20 minutes.

SPEAKER_00 30:02

Yeah, but it was grant uh thousands and thousands of dollars for us to say we did this right.

SPEAKER_03 30:10

Yeah. So, you know, again, so we we complied with what um the state board asked for. Um, and so you know, here we are moving forward. But figuring out, I I again I think the the learning that came from me, um, you know, also kind of that was the um what's the phrase, the icing on the cake, I guess, um, following a year of betrayals for me. Um, the last year has felt like um numerous betrayals, um, and and some of it, you know, somewhat related to to the situation. Um, and so for me, it was okay, well, I'm not, I know who I am, yeah, and I know we've done nothing wrong. So I have nothing to hide. Um, I don't need to be afraid. Um I'm angry, yeah, but and and I'm okay to work my way through those feelings. Um, I'm hurt, um, you know, but I'm not gonna hide those or stuff those down. That, you know, there's that's the grieving process. That's when you realize like somebody that you thought was a good friend, um, you know, has something happened either, you know, for themselves or um, you know, is is stuck in a trauma um and is operating from a trauma space. And so you try to find the ways of having compassion. Like I can understand why somebody might feel that way. Um, and this is not okay. Yeah. Yeah, to to treat friends that way is not okay. But, you know, so for me, I think the moving forward is recognizing like, you know, I can't make somebody deal with their trauma. No, no, so until that's done, I gotta keep my keep my space.

SPEAKER_00 31:45

Yeah, and that's perfect the way you said that. And I think if you're listening or watching, you can't make someone be different, right? You you you can't, and it can be deeply painful to still manage that space with those individuals. It's it's deeply painful because you're like, why? Why are you this isn't it like you know me? And so, or you just so desperately want the person to please change. I love you, please change. Yeah, but they don't. Right. And so we understand that, and we wanted to be upfront about this year of betrayals of the pain that we've gone through. Um, it really sucked. It was like, get out of here, 2024.

SPEAKER_03 32:32

We're yeah, we're ready, we're ready. We're ready to move forward. Yeah, um, and certainly there's you know, there's good learning, there's good moments of self-reflection. Um, but yeah, certainly we're it made us stronger.

SPEAKER_00 32:44

Um, it definitely definitely lit a fire under us. You know, nothing like putting a bullseye on your back to make you fight harder, right? You know, so I guess there's a positive in that too. But when you think about the the people at your table, um, even past Christmas time, you are going to have unwelcome guests. So I guess what what would you say is the best advice for someone that has unwelcome guests?

SPEAKER_03 33:07

Um my mind goes basic first. Breathe, just breathe. Um, recognize that you're going to have to interact with this person if you well, ask yourself, do I have to interact? If the answer is yes, then you know you got to do more self-care. You've got to spend more time boosting yourself up so that you have a reservoir to draw on when you're in those moments of interaction.

SPEAKER_00 33:29

Yeah. And it's okay to run the gambit of of emotion. You're gonna have the anger, you know, like uh Google Rocks, you're gonna go through all of it. Um, you're gonna have the anger, you're gonna have the grief, you're gonna have the disbelief, you're gonna have all of those things. Um, but what I would say in that is again, you can't change how they're behaving. You can only do you. You can only do you. And and and that's you could you have to have that really strong sense, that internal, that intrinsic worth to know like this doesn't matter, but it's still you're gonna still have to traverse that pain.

SPEAKER_03 34:03

Yeah, you know, but yeah, if you avoid it, it's just gonna, it's not gonna get anybody. Avoidance gets us nowhere, right?

SPEAKER_00 34:08

Yeah. And so, and think about that. It it could be like an unjust claim that she and I went through this year, or betrayals from people that we really love. Um, or it could be again that thing that you're not looking at. That's an unwelcome guest that's that's stopping you from reaching those business goals, that's stopping you from achieving healthy relationships in your life. That's an unwelcome guest. You can feel the emotions, but if that's all you do, you're gonna stay there. You're gonna stay there. You you have to choose. Yeah, you have to choose. I want different and do the hard work to do different, you know, and and keep fighting through it. So, yeah, um, I think one of the other things for myself that I learned this year that was really hard, and I would call her, like, I I don't know what to do. Um, I think as therapist, especially she had so many years, and that's why she's great. She helps me through. Am I good enough? Is this right? I have had to release clients. And a lot of times in our field, we hear you're not supposed to do that. You just take care of everyone. But I would come to her and say, But I'm I'm being abused, like I and I'm not using this world, this word flippantly. Like I I'm worried for my safety. I don't like what am I supposed to do? And so I think part of the unwelcome guest who at the table was not only clients that just weren't ready to do this work, um, but the unwelcome guest of imposter syndrome, of saying, Well, you're really not good enough, Piper. You're not really a good therapist if you don't put up with X, Y, and Z. Right. It was very, that was hard for me this year to face that.

SPEAKER_03 35:49

Yeah, yeah. And I I think, you know, the the reality of you know, people's circumstances is, you know, for for many people that are are quote unquote the hardest to work with in the mental health field, it all comes from a place of trauma.

SPEAKER_01 36:03

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 36:04

And so, you know, even in knowing that, it's also okay to say, you know, I have certain expectations, I have certain boundaries. And when clients continue to violate them, um, you know, or it leaves you feeling unsafe, you know, then that's not okay either. And if it's one of those situations that you can't address in a therapeutic way because that person is just not in the space to be able to do that, yeah, then you gotta you gotta take care of you. And so, you know, that can leave you feeling, you know, like I'm just I I'm not good enough, I can't handle this. And it's just the dynamics that exist, you know, for that person. Um, and until they are ready to, you know, to really address it, um, you know, it can leave the therapist thinking I'm I'm I'm I'm not good enough or I must be doing something wrong. Um, and so, you know, again, it's it's always a good space to kind of take a step back and be like, okay, is this me? Yeah. And if it is, then you know you've got work to do. If it's not, then it's okay, well, what is it in this in this dynamic? Yeah um and where is my client and what's really in the best interest of my client. And so sometimes it's really hard when what's in the best interest of your client is referring out.

SPEAKER_00 37:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:20

Because you know that whatever's going on is not going to be helpful or therapeutic.

SPEAKER_00 37:26

Yeah. It's hard to face that though. It is. It's hard to, I mean, I'm sure in this year for your work too, it's like, did I make the right choice from retiring? Like you stepping into this has been huge. Yeah. And fighting this constant, am I good enough? Am I strong enough? Am I worthy? Am I smart enough? Am I, I mean, like oh, yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:47

And so that's why we need our communities around us to to lean on, to, you know, to trust with the constructive feedback, to um, you know, to kind of recognize that, you know, we're not, we're never going to be our best selves when we try to do it by ourselves. Yeah. That we have to do it in in connection with each other. And that's why I'm so grateful for you know, for our partnership, the way that we work together, what we're building. Um, and so yeah, I'm just excited for 2025.

SPEAKER_00 38:16

Yeah. So on to 2025.

SPEAKER_03 38:19

That was a good segue, right?

SPEAKER_00 38:20

That was a perfect segue. I was getting a little heavy there. I was starting to think about all the bad stories. I'm like, nobody wants to listen to that. Um, but yeah, so I mean, going into 2025, so thinking about transition from, you know, who are the people at your table? What are your roles and responsibilities? What are the hats you're wearing? What tools are you using to get there? And then how what's the table going to look like in 2025? And this is that visualization is so key. I love it. Um, she's great at visualization. Um, but who do we want to invite to our table in 2025? What are those goals, those aspirations? So you start.

SPEAKER_03 38:56

Let me start. Um, I want to invite more businesses um, you know, to my table to, you know, partake in the in the the good things that I that I have to offer and I know I can bring. Um I want um, I already have a speaking engagement set for the beginning of January um with the Optimist Club in Canton. So I'm I'm excited to work with other Optimist clubs because um the more I've investigated it, the more Edlyan um the Optimist Club is. Um, so so that would be exciting to have more that's fun, more speaking you know, opportunities, getting to know more people in that arena would be fabulous for me. Um so yeah, that's kind of what comes to mind first.

SPEAKER_00 39:35

Yeah. I think for me, for this um for for this upcoming year is um I've noticed a shift in my work and it's going more and more and more just to trauma. I mean, it's it's really kind of going into that space, but especially men. I I really didn't know I would enjoy sorry guys, I don't mean this in a bad way, but I really enjoy working with you, and it's such a challenge because obviously I'm a woman, and there I have to ask them, you need to teach me what it is to walk in your shoes, you know. And so I would for 2025, I would invite in more of the men that have endured such trauma and they they hide because they're like we can't, because societally says push it down, you gotta be tough, you can't cry, you can't especially go tell a woman, right? You know, and um, so I think some of those new guests that I want at the table in 2025 is is men to courageously step into this work, yeah. You know, because it's pretty cool, and it's a challenge, and I love it. And guys, you know that I tell them all the time, you're challenging me today. Because I and they're so kind too. And it's like, is I talk like this, and then they sit there and go, Am I allowed to say anything to you? I'm like, absolutely, you're safe. Um, so I think that would be some of my guess that one one part of it that I bring in. How about you?

SPEAKER_03 40:58

Um no other guess, but as I as I think about other opportunities, I hope will come. So another facet of my my business is doing training. Um, and so knowing that over the years, you know, being involved in NASAP, um many people have come up to me and said, I want to learn how you how you use the basis A with clients. I want to learn more about that. When are you gonna launch a training program? So that did launch this year. I had the first class in November. I have another one scheduled for February. Um, and so I would love to have more opportunities um to go and and I don't want to put anybody on the spot, but there are people kind of overseas um who over the years have asked me. Um, and so I would I would love to travel and I would love to bring um you know the basis A training to you know to groups around the world. So I'm hoping that that shows up at my table this year. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 41:49

Yeah, because she's already doing it. So it's right. I mean, 2025 is gonna be humongous for her. Humongous. It's fingers crossed. We're really excited about 2025. Yeah. Um, I would think some of the other interesting guests that I would invite into 2025 is um more faithful connections. Susan and I are very open about our faith and our love of Christ. And so um, this is really it's who we are, and obviously it's only with the clients that that's what they want integrated into their work.

SPEAKER_01 42:18

Right.

SPEAKER_00 42:18

We never force it. Um, but I would love for people to know that this is a safe space, you know, to work those things out because um there's a lot of pain that is associated with religion. Yeah, religion. And so yes, ever I think a lot of us have. Um, and so I I would love to have more of that. Um, some of the clients that have found me recently, boy, it's been fun um to be able to step in and do that kind of stuff together. So I'd say that. Um, and I would say too, again, the continued like collaborative opportunities for she and I, we talked about uh the mentee and just really giving back to the the community, getting out, doing speaking engagements, whatever we can do to, and I think too, as I'm talking about it, what I would really love part of our 2025 is that people in this field specifically, just because it's different, doesn't mean you can't do what we're doing, right? We don't have to have this, you know, hierarchical dynamic. Yeah, and it and you can make it work, and and I think that would give so much hope to so many people in this field because it is. I mean, when they tell you no, this is how it's always done, so it doesn't nothing illegal, but to see for people to see how this dynamic works, I think would be really cool to have maybe some more conversations with people about like this is how you can build this out. It doesn't have to be either or, it can be yes, right, right.

SPEAKER_03 43:54

And I think um what you and I have talked about, and I would love to see this uh show. At our at our tables uh this year, you know, with all of the the training and experience and knowledge and wisdom you have, right, about polyvagal understanding, right? And how that can really impact somebody's um ability to do better self-care.

SPEAKER_01 44:14

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 44:14

Um, you know, that's the kind of stuff that I think businesses could benefit from, you know, to even just have a have a quiet space, you know, set aside in an office where somebody could go and take that time to, you know, to breathe, to hum, to sing, to, you know, whatever it is that's going to be of benefit to them and do it kind of have the have the business say, we want you to be your best self when you're here. Um and so if you need across the day time to um devote to that, we want to make that possible for you versus always relegating it to your off time, right? Um, and so if somebody could catch themselves kind of through your understanding of this is how we start to notice when we're starting to creep up and our anxiety or whatever is starting to creep up, and then be like, okay, time out. I need to go and do this and take care of myself for five minutes and I'll be right back. And then that person the rest of the day is probably gonna be much more functional than if they try to stuff it down, ignore it, and try to keep on with their day. By the time I mean, they're gonna be no good. And guys later.

SPEAKER_00 45:16

I want to be clear this is not you know kumbaya stuff. No, it's not. This is this is rooted in science. That's what we're talking about when it comes to this brain body that I'm really integrating into practice and that businesses can't integrate as well. This is not kumbaya, you see them in all funny movies. This is not a cry room. This is not any of that stuff. This is not let's curl up in a blanket, although I have my weighted blanket for some of my clients. Um, but no, this is this is rooted in science. This is not who we kumbaya stuff. This is real stuff that organizations absolutely need, yeah, just as much as my clients need. We use it. I mean, like when we get dysregulated, I'm like, ooh, Piper, you better stop your start, your tapping before you're offline, you know. So I I yeah.

SPEAKER_03 46:02

Yeah, and I think that's you know, when when companies, you know, hear from people like us and you know, like, oh, you're gonna just be another one of those, like, you know, warm, fuzzy things. Like, no, we've got science to back up what we do. Yeah, um, and so you know, it might it might feel warm and fuzzy when you're done because you know a lot more about yourself and you know how to take care of yourself better. Yeah, but that's never gonna be what you're left with. It's it's always gonna be very focused and tailored to the things that you're struggling with or your business is struggling with, those pain points. Like we can certainly address them and help and help boost employee morale, engagement, um, you know, fix your attrition problem. Yeah, all of those things.

SPEAKER_00 46:39

Yeah. And I think too, yeah, just thinking about our 20, and this is the fun part, right? And this is this is what should be fun for you too, um, whether you're preparing for your 2025 as an organization or an executive or clients, is is you really have to, it's not about dreaming these crazy audacious dreams, but there needs to be some sort of spirit of hope that's in it. Yes, and like us talking about this gets me, I'm I'm excited. Like, okay, let's go, 2025, let's go. Like, we can affect change. Maybe it won't happen, you know, in this huge way, and that's okay. A little bit of change is right. You just you need that hope driver. Yeah, and I think that's what I'm feeling. Like, I'm getting like buzzy excited. I'm getting excited for it. So, yeah, I think you know, just the future for dynamic mind, dynamic growth, and untangled mind. Um, we're excited for 2025. We know who's been at our table, who will let remain at our table. We are hopeful for those coming to the table, and we know the ones that we're not allowing at the table anymore. You know, and that feels good. That feels good. So, well, with that, we're just kind of sharing a little bit. Um, and then just real quick, um, you know, some future things that we're working on. We talked about your training. Um, we're talking about all her speaking engagements. So we really want this consulting side of things to really take off.

SPEAKER_03 48:03

I think, you know, we're on the cusp of something. So um, so yeah, I'm I'm very grateful for opportunities that seem to be appearing.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

So yeah, yeah, very grateful. And I think too, um, as you will all go to our sites, you'll see that we're really focused on data-driven, data-informed practices. Um, we're both of us, like this has to, we can prove what we're doing. Yeah. Um, and so that's something that we're really going to focus on and fine-tune in 2025. I think too, if you read my blog, I've been doing the catching flack series. And I have been really working with Susan, like saying, This is what I want this to look like counseling-wise, eradicating some of these old ways that therapy's always been done and stop it. And that's why the data-informed practices, the the science-based practices, psychology is subjective in and of itself. We we know that, but there's actual proof. We, and that's what we're trying to do or standing out in 2025. Like, no, here it is.

SPEAKER_03 49:05

Yeah, here using the things, yes, using the things that we know because the data shows, yeah, right, versus just picking things off of the shelf because you know, we went to a training on it or or something like that. So really investing in, um, and I think that's something I I will always commend you on. You invest so much of your off time in reading and pursuing these new certifications and and so on. So um, so yeah, I think it's I think it's one of those things that really stands us apart is that we will we stand on science. It's not just fluff, it's not just you know the the psychology of things that matters, but we're rooted in and we'll take care of you.

SPEAKER_00 49:42

We're very compassionate. She's probably more compassionate than us. But we're very compassionate, but it's we're like, hey, you're coming to us with a problem. Let's fix it.

SPEAKER_03 49:51

And we'll show you at the end, like how you started at point A and here you are at point Z and what's different.

SPEAKER_00 49:57

Yeah. And these are the tools that you used, and you can continue to move through. So yeah, just a lot of um really exciting stuff coming ahead. You know, this this year's um Vog cast podcast, whatever you want to call it, uh, is a little bit different last year. If you remember, we talked about the basis A. So make sure you go back and watch that. I was the guinea pig. Um, and so ding, it's telling us our lunch appointments coming. We're very excited for our Christmas lunch too. Um, but you know, go back and watch that because you'll learn more on an individual level what the basis A is. And so clients and individuals, you can have that. That's a great opportunity.

SPEAKER_01 50:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 50:36

Um, but learn more about that and and following us with our blogs we like to write, um, you know, and you know, hopefully we have a robust season for you all.

SPEAKER_03 50:47

Yes, and we certainly, you know, wish all of you watching, you know, current clients, future clients, um, we certainly hope that you know you're able to think about some of these things. So take time and and think about who's at your table, who do you want there? What steps do you need to take? What roles maybe can we play in helping you, you know, get take those steps and um so that way your table at the end of the year next year looks different than it does perhaps today.

SPEAKER_00 51:11

And and here's the thing too, that hope factor, you know, what seat at the table is that hope? What does it look like? What does it taste like? And visualize it. What what do you really want to impact? And it listen, yeah, I want to change the world of therapy. You don't need that giant of a dream. The hope might be I make my bed this week. The hope might be, you know, that I don't scream at my kids. The hope, I mean, hope is different for everyone, but that that seat at the table, you have to find that.

SPEAKER_03 51:42

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Um so do we want to move on to find the I think that's I think we're we have our notes. Okay. So so yeah, so take time to think about um, you know, what seat would you want your future dreams? And I'm gonna throw in even another visualization. So so the closer you can put your dreams and and those hopes, I think the easier it feels to then start to embark on them, right? So if you're if you imagine a table of chairs and your hope is on the total opposite end of the table from you, that might feel a little more daunting. So, what do we need to do to make it the tape, the seat right next to you?

SPEAKER_01 52:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 52:20

And then it's easier to kind of tap into and do a little bit at a time, which then generates even more hope. Yeah, absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 52:26

Yeah, so spend time. I mean, if you're an artsy person and actually different parts of your brain is hit if you draw this out, draw your table. You know, who who's at the table? Who do you not want at the table? What's the place setting? Those place settings are roles and responsibilities, and the utensils are your tools. And if you don't have them, how do I find the person that I need at my table to bring those tools? So sometimes we don't all have, I don't have the same tools that Susan has. So she's at my table because she brings the tools I lack. So it doesn't mean you have that. Yeah, and you don't have to have all the tools. We won't want this to be daunting, but you have to have that person at your table. Yeah. Or there, you know, that hope and that dream is way down at the end or other end, and there's just no way that you're gonna reach it. Right. You know? So, well, that is our 2024 wrap. So really think about who's at your table, who's at yes, your holiday table. Um, our thoughts and prayers are with all a lot of you that are traversing a very difficult holiday season, we know. Um, and you but thinking about those lost ones that they're still sitting at our table and they've had such an effect on our lives. And the loss opens up space for someone, something new, something, and so, and then being very aware of who doesn't belong at your table. There are always unwelcome guests. You gotta name it and you gotta boundary up. You gotta boundary up. And so just being aware that you're allowed to do that with your table. Right.

SPEAKER_03 53:58

Yeah, you know, make it the best one you've had. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 54:01

So all right, y'all. Thank you so much. And if you would like to reach us, you can reach Susan at dynamicgrowthcc.com. That's dynamic growth counseling and consulting services. And you can learn more about me at untangledmind.net for any of your counseling needs. Uh, be sure just to keep your eye out on our stuff because we're growing. We're we have, by the way, we have tons of free resources on our websites. We're working on books, we're doing all of the things to make sure that if you can't access our professional services, that we do have resources for you at no cost. Yep, and we'll keep adding to those as we go. Yep, absolutely. All right, take care, everybody, and happy holidays. We'll see you in 2025. Thank you for tuning into this episode of the Dynamic Mind Podcast. This podcast is a collaboration between Untangled Mind, offering expert CBT counseling for anxiety, trauma, and grief, and dynamic growth counseling and consulting services, providing strategic consulting solutions for individuals and organizations. We invite you to learn more about our work and how we can support you by visiting us at dynamicmindlc.com. If you found this episode helpful, we'd love for you to share it with others who might benefit from our insights and tools. From all of us at Dynamic Mind, I wish you a successful and fulfilling 2025. Thank you for being part of our journey, and we'll see you in the next episode.