Hi, I'm Piper Harris, licensed professional counselor, and welcome to the Untingled Mind Podcast. This is a show for people who want to understand why their mind works the way it does, not just how to cope with it. Drawing from neuropsychology, neurophilosophy, and data-driven CBT, we look at how anxiety and trauma shape perception, behavior, and choice and what actually helps people change. I'm an integrative CBT therapist based in the Atlanta suburbs. Each episode is designed to teach you something concrete, how to recognize what's keeping you stuck, how to interrupt unhelpful patterns, and how to move forward with clarity and steadiness. Imagine waking up every day and your body still thinks you're in danger, even when you're safe. Imagine your own mind feeling like the enemy, flashbacks, numbness, rage, or shutdown that you can't explain. And imagine being told, just talk about it, or you're in trauma-informed therapy now, when the person saying it has no idea that real healing must happen through a very specific model. That's what we're going to start today. Because understanding trauma isn't just about knowing what happened, it's about understanding what it does to your brain, your body, your relationships, and why the triphasic model is the clearest, safest path out. If you've lived through trauma or you love someone who has, this is for you. If you're a survivor trying to make sense of why you still feel unsafe, disconnected, or stuck, this is for you. And especially if you are a clinician or a therapist who calls yourself trauma-informed, but you've never been deeply trained in the triphasic model, this series is for you too. Too many people say the words trauma-informed without understanding the actual phases of safety, remembrance, and reconnection, and we're going to fix that. Here's a trigger warning. This episode and the whole series discusses trauma, abuse, captivity, loss of safety, and the very real pain of recovery. I won't get graphic, but the content can still bring up strong feelings. Please take care of yourself. Pause, breathe, step away, or reach out for support if you need it. You are not alone. Resources at the end of every episode and in the show notes. In Atlanta and Georgia, you can call the Georgia Crisis and Access line at 1-800-715-4225 or text home H O M E to 741-741 for the Crisis Text Line. Stay with me. This is episode one. Hey everyone, thanks so much for joining me. It's been a minute since I have recorded a podcast. I've actually been wanting to record this series for quite some time, but I'm telling you, this Atlanta pollen and all of the things has really kicked my butt. So we'll see how today goes. Hopefully, I don't start coughing my head off. So, you know, the majority of the work that I do at Untangled Mind, um, I'd say about, I don't know, 97% of my cases are all trauma. And um this week or this previous week, in fact, I just had some really extraordinary conversations surrounding trauma. And I've been kind of chewing on doing a very specific trauma series that spoke not only to the listener, the general public that wonders if they have trauma, um, but also to clinicians. Um, because I think that too often what I'm seeing is that um clinicians say they're trauma-informed, but they don't really know what trauma-informed is. Um, and it's very specific. And I have had the blessing to have some really incredible um training. Um, and I continue to learn every day. So a couple of the conversations that I've had over the last week was um one being with Dr. Melinda Page. I just love her. I met her about six years ago. I don't even know how we got connected. It was um as I started into the master's program, and I said, you know, trauma is where my heart is, this is what I want to go into, and that is her specialization. Um, and so she put me through some pretty intensive training um through her program. And um we caught up this past week and just really discussed um the lack of clinicians actually knowing what the triphasic model is, and we'll talk about that through this series. And just that um it's really scary that we hear or we see, you know, trauma-informed on coaches' pages, on clinicians' pages that have never had any deep training, and it's it's very dangerous. So I just really loved my conversation with her this last week. It was just a wonderful opportunity for her and I to kind of discuss the Untangled Mind pathway, how that fits with a triphasic model, um, some other opportunities for me. Um, and it's just wonderful collaboration with her. In addition, um, I talked with a gentleman, Dr. Greg Brown, over at the Shepherd's Clinic, and he heads um the uh share military um program over there. And so the Shepherd's Clinic, if you're you're not aware of what they do, they focus on um, I mean, a lot of different things, but him in particular, it's TBIs. TBIs that are probably mild to moderate, and TBI, if you don't know what that is, is traumatic brain injury. And then there's always kind of a comorbidity, so it might be depression, it might be PTSD. And so he and I really discussed um that there has to be more information out there about what trauma is, how to approach it. And it was a wonderful dialogue with him because their program really focuses heavily on education, as does Untangled Mind Pathway, because he and I both agree that that is an enormous missing piece in PTS um recovery, is that we've got to educate individuals because they feel so out of control with the trauma symptoms, that education really is a lifeline for them. Um, I'm really excited. I asked him if I could come shadow him over at Shepherd. Um, I just would love to be part of it. Um, as you all know, I love the brain too and studying the brain. And so to be in um that environment with Dr. Brown and everybody else on staff and hopefully work with um some of the veterans. They focus mostly on veterans. He said they were um predominantly like post-9-11 vets that were, you know, 10, 15 or more years out. Um, and then he said now they're actually working with vets and first responders that are current day. Um, so again, that's really where my heart lies and with a lot of the work. And I also um work with complex trauma cases. And again, we're gonna talk about that today. So that was one of the wonderful conversations that I had, and looking forward to spending some time over the Shepherd Center. Um, and then in addition, I spoke with someone, John Hansen, and he's with a Georgia First Responders um PTSD um network. And what he focuses on is legislation that assists um those with a PTSD diagnosis um get money to pay for their care because it can be very expensive. For example, myself, I'm absolutely out of network private pay. And so that is a barrier to a lot of people affording um to work with me. But he has worked on legislation, um, not only in um Georgia, but he's working in other states to come up with how do we ensure that these individuals get the care that they need and they deserve. So wonderful conversation with him and looking forward to our continued work together. Talk to him a lot about um, you know, measurement-based care needs to come back. Um, and so yeah, just I was it was just a really blessed week of extraordinary conversations with individuals within the field in different aspects. Um, and we're all fighting for the same thing, all fighting for the same thing. And then I think from again, from my perspective, is that I have some real concern and frustration with the field where individuals say, well, I'm trauma-informed and and they are so lacking. In fact, both Dr. Brown and um Mr. Hansen said it is so hard to find a clinician that actually can back up what trauma-informed is because obviously they they know um and they're working, they they understand the buzzwords, I guess you could say Dr. Brown more so than um John Hansen, but all that to be said, just because Dr. Brown's more clinical, but all that to be said, they said it's just very rare that they can find a clinician that knows what they're talking about. And so I've been just kind of chewing. So I've just been chewing on this series and really wanting to dive in for the general public, for the listeners, for those of you that are um struggling through trauma symptoms, trying to understand what's happening. Maybe you don't have the resources. You could live, you know, um, where there aren't resources. That was a lot of what John Hansen and I talked about. Um, and also for clinicians, stop saying you're trauma-informed if you don't know what it is. So we're just gonna really dig into that again. I mentioned it in the intro. Please be aware that I will be discussing um some things that could be highly triggering for a lot of you. So if you have not worked with a professional, you don't know grounding school skills, you don't know some vagal activation, that sort of thing, please be very cautious with this um conversation. So with that, I digress. Um what I want to say is that trauma is not rare, it's actually fairly common. Unfortunately, though, I think that the word trauma has been overused in common day dialect. Not everything is trauma. Um so I want to kind of go into that a little bit. So, according to the CDC's most recent data from the behavioral risk factor surveillance system, this is from 2011 to 2020, um, 63.9% of U.S. adults have experienced at least one adverse childhood experience. I'm gonna talk about that in just a minute. Almost one in six, 17.3%, have experienced four or more adverse childhood experiences. Among high school students in 2023, the numbers are even higher. 76.1% reported at least one ACE, and 18.5% reported four or more. So um emotional abuse was one of the most common. Um, one of the most important public health studies on trauma comes from the CDC and uh Kaiser Permanente Permanente, and this was the ACE study. So I want to explain the ACE. This is something that I give to every one of my clients. The ACE questionnaire looks at 10 specific categories of difficult or harmful experiences that happen in childhood before age 18. And they are divided into three main types. So the first type is abuse, so it asks questions about physical abuse. So being hit, beaten, um, physically hurt by an adult in your household. The second is sexual abuse, any sexual conduct or behavior by an adult or an older pu person, and then emotional abuse, being called names, humiliated, or made to feel worthless or threatened. The second area is neglect. So this is looking at physical neglect, like not having enough food or clothing, um, medical Sorry about that. So again, physical neglect is not having enough food, clothing, medical care or supervision. Emotional neglect is not feeling loved, supported, or valued, and feeling like no one in the family cared about you or protected you. And then the third area is household dysfunction. So it looks at mother or stepmother might be treating you violently or you witnessed domestic violence in the home. Um, there also has questions about household substance abuse, so living with someone who is a problem drinker or used illegal drugs. It asks about household mental illness, so living with someone who is depressed, mentally ill, or suicidal. And then parental separation or divorce. And finally, it asks about incarcerated household members, a parent or another adult who lived in the home or that who went to prison. So each yes counts as a one as one point. So your ACE score is simply the total number of categories you experienced. So here's why this matters so much. And again, I give my ACE score to every single person that comes and sees me. And you'll understand why once I give you kind of some more statistics. So more than 60% of US adults have at least one ace. And nearly one in six, again, I talked about this earlier, about 17% have four or more. Um, the numbers come from this very long-scale ongoing public health surveillance kind of study that they did. And um they don't even really capture all of the adult onset traumas that happen later in life, um, things like intimate partner violence, combat, medical trauma, systemic oppression, or even community and violence. But the higher the ACE score, the greater risk for a wide range of health and mental health challenges later in life. So it's not because the person is broken, but it is because repeated early trauma literally shapes the developing brain and the nervous system and your overall health. And it increases inflammation, um, it alters your stress response, and it really makes your body more vulnerable to these chronic conditions like metabolic um issues, cardiovascular issues. So when I say the science behind the phase, like the body keeps the score, we've all heard that. There's actual science behind that, is that trauma, what I want everybody to understand, trauma isn't just psychological, it is biological. And so those numbers from the ACE study, they're not just opinions, they're reality. And again, like I said, they don't even count the adult traumas. When I look at this with my clients, if they have a score for higher, we're definitely digging more into when was the last time you had a physical, when was the last time you had blood work done, um, you know, do we have uh heart problems, metabolic conditions that we think we need to look at? Do you have high inflammation factors? Because what we know is when inflammation is higher in the body, we're gonna see um a worsening or a more what we call kind of a stuck depression, a stuck trauma response because inflammation makes it much harder for us to heal through this. So it's very, it's very important that we look at this ACE study. And again, all of my clients get that. And so the higher the ACE score goes, um, I also know how treatment is going to go. So one of the important things about when you work with individuals with trauma, clinicians, if you're listening, um, is that it's important to include measurement-based care like the ACE score and some other scores. You can use a PCL5 for a PTSD score, but you need to use some other ones. You need to really create a large picture to understand the depth and severity of trauma because that's going to inform your treatment plan and how long you inform the client that this is gonna take. Um, and bylaw, by the way, we're supposed to give a good faith estimate, but a lot of people don't do that. Um, so it's so that's a little bit about the A-score. And it's very important for a lot of us to uh consider that. It's it's there's some fighting about the A-score. And again, if you are a trauma-informed clinician like you say you are, you're looking at the A-score as a holistic lens into the individual's life. So if the A-score, um, if you're like a you know one to two, we're looking, you know, kind of mild, moderate. If you're four and above, if you're a seven, more than likely if you're a seven, you're looking at some incarceration in their background, um, pretty severe, probably um complex trauma. When you get higher in numbers, you've got some real complex childhood trauma. Um, so if you're trauma-informed, this is really going to inform how you even approach the individual. And that's where I want to talk about what actually happens in the brain and body when trauma occurs. Okay. So um people are very aware of Bessel uh Vanderkoelk's uh The Body Keeps the Score book. Great book. Um, I do not ask my clients to read that, it's too triggering. Also, Judith Herman's Trauma and Recovery. Um, in both of these books, the science is very clear that trauma is not just psychological. It doesn't just live in your memories, it really does live in your nervous system. So when trauma happens, whether that is a single traumatic experience, so that could be an earthquake, a flood, a car wreck, um, anything like that, or a prolonged trauma or a complex trauma. So we're looking at something that's happening repeated. We might see trauma that started in childhood and lasted 25 years. We might see um veterans, police officers that are constantly um subjected to traumatic experiences. Um, same case, same with our healthcare workers. They are subjected to day in, day out of traumatic experiences. So, what happens with trauma, especially when it's prolonged, or you're powerless to escape it, you hear that a lot from people when they start getting into their trauma narrative. Like, I feel trapped. That's a huge word that they say. So, what happens, and if you've been listening to the podcast, this is all gonna be repeated, but it's very important for you to understand is the amygdala. So it's basic, you're at the base of your school. This is kind of your your brain's smoke detector, uh your fire alarm, like get out, watch out. Um, what happens to it is it goes overdrive. The amygdala does. Now, what I want to say about the amygdala is we need to have it because it keeps us safe. It's the first first part of the brain that actually develops because it is about safety. What I will say is it's not exactly smart, it's just you know, threat detection. That's all it does. So, what happens when that of amygdala hits and it's an overdrive, it floods our body with stress hormones like cortisol or adrenaline. Then what happens, the hippocampus, and this is the part that files memories neatly. So, this is our filing room. I always tell people Monsters Inc., I think the gal's name in it when she was the filing clerk, I think her name was Marge. I always imagine her in my hippocampus. Um, so Marge in that filing room in the hippocampus, um, she gets impaired. And so the traumatic memories stay very raw and fragmented and really kind of diffuse through your whole memory network. So um instead of becoming like a normal past story, it's still present in and and um it goes to everything, it generalizes to everything. Then what happens is the prefrontal cortex, that's a really wise part of the brain, the rational part that says you're safe now, it goes offline. And so this is can this can be particularly difficult when we're working with individuals with a complex trauma history. So we're talking about very early, early childhood experiences of um sexual abuse, physical abuse. Um, we can see some things like um extreme levels of neglect. What happens is when the brain forms, a brain, it the brain forms bottom up and from one side to the other. If the amygdala is on high alert the whole time, it actually engages the side or grows the side of the brain that looks for the more intuitive things. It helps scan the environment so it becomes really strong, whereas the prefrontal cortex is almost kind of immature. Okay, and I'm not gonna go real deeply into this because I don't want this to be too sciencey for any of you that are listening. But what I want to say is a lot of my trauma clients will say to me, I feel so freaking immature. Like, why is this bugging me? This happened so long ago, or I don't understand why I get triggered in these ways, or and again, all of them use the word immature or stupid. Um and again, it's because that amygdala has learned to stay on high alert and scan for threat. And it what happens then is it generalizes and it sees threat everywhere. Whereas the hippocampus keeps filing everything away as threat and danger. And that prefrontal cortex, the smart brain, we can't talk ourselves down. We can't logic our way out of it because um one, it's offline, but two, it's not as um powerful, I guess you could say, as a brain that hasn't been subjected to that environment. Okay, so that's why survivors often feel like super hyper alert, like they can't relax. Um, or some feel very numb or disassociated, so they can't feel anything. So um oftentimes I have clients that just kind of they get a look on their face in session, they kind of space out, they don't blink, they're kind of like looking through me, and I'll say something like, Hey, you know, or I'll give them a lifesaver to suck on, or so I know what's happening is that we're we're stepping into areas that in my office we know they're safe. I've built a relationship with them before we start going in any trauma narrative. But the brain says, Hold on a second, we're butting up against something. The amygdala says, Okay, danger, danger, danger, danger. Even though they're sitting comfortably in my office, they've got their sodas or whatever they decided they want, you know, coffee or tea, they're all tucked in. I have a blankie, I tuck everybody in, they love it. Um, you know, so the brain again it is just used to that. But when you just kind of touch up again. It it numbs out. Um, or oftentimes what you'll see as well is these kind of loops of shame, um, rage, self-blame. Or I oftentimes see the partner of the person that went through something traumatic come in and be like, they're just worried I'm gonna leave them or something. This makes like no sense. I don't know what's going on. So your body and your brain literally keeps the score of the trauma and it remembers um, it remembers what your mind sometimes tries to forget. It's almost like the body screaming, like, remember, remember, remember. And then the mind is like, no, I can't. So they're butting up against each other. So that's kind of what happens when it comes to these traumatic experiences. And again, through this series, I'm going to be talking about the triphasic model. So we're gonna briefly go into it today. I do think this is important for those of you that um have had tri um traumatic experiences and are finding some real frustration in finding a clinician because this education is going to give you what you need to really interview a clinician. So please take notes and and and please educate yourself. Now, what I also want to say, if you are not a clinician that is thoroughly grounded and you've done your own work, um, anybody else, please do not read any of the books that I have suggested because they are highly triggering. I do not suggest Body Keeps the Score. I do not suggest Judith Herman's work. Um it it's pretty intense. It's intense for me, and this is what I do for a living. Um, and so I just again I I want to be very clear. Please, please, please, please take care of yourself in individuals. If you're like lost trying to find a clinician that can actually help you, um, this is hopefully going to give you some tools and some ways to interview clinicians. Okay, so all of that. Now, this goes into um Judith Herman's work and it's revolutionary. And I had shared before um Dr. Melinda Page and I got connected about six years ago. And her, um, she taught me the triphasic model. And Herman, in her book, Trauma and Recovery, um, she describes what's called as this central dialectic of psychological trauma. Okay, I know, lots of words. So, what it means is the conflict between the will to deny horrible events and the will to proclaim them out loud. That's what our clients are up against, clinicians. That's individuals that are listening, what you're up against, what you're feeling, and you just don't understand. It's this will, this conflict between the will to deny what happened, the brain's like, I can't look at it, I can't look at it, I can't look at it, and the will to proclaim it out loud. Like, I have to say it, I have to say it, I have to say it. So they get stuck. So, society and often the survivors themselves, they swing between wanting to forget and needing to speak the truth. And that tension, I believe, is why trauma gets minimized, why survivors get gaslit. And we'll talk a little bit about that. And why so many trauma-informed programs rush people straight into talking about the worst moments without building safety first, which is so frustrating. And so Herman's answer, Judith Herman's answer, is a very clear three-stage model that has become the foundation of trauma-informed care. It was really interesting when I was having my conversation with Dr. Brown over at the Shepherd Center. He said, Hey, you know, I'm not an EMDR clinician. Um, why is it that some of my clients come in, my patients come in and they say it worked for them and others it was a bunch of hooey? And I said, Because it's the clinician's fault, that's why. And it speaks to exactly what I said. If people go into EMDR because they think it is the new the buzzword, it's not a magic wand, y'all. Um, it's still exposure therapy, it is still very difficult. Um, but if your clinician goes straight into um EMDR with you, like just barely talks to you for maybe two sessions, finds your negative cognition in your primary, primary memory, and goes straight into EMDR, um, their nervous system, that client's nervous system, is not safe. It remember what I just told you, what happened with the amygdala and generalization, it's constantly scanning for threat. It finds threat. So if a clinician goes straight into trauma processing and trauma exposure, which is EMDR, and for those of you that don't know what EMDR stands for, eye movement, desensitization and reprocessing. Um, and it's just an exposure technique. Um, it's it's great. Um, but the problem is, like I told Dr. Brown, was like because the some clinicians just go smack dab into it and then the client's like, I think I feel better. Like I've had clients say to me, yeah, I did EMDR, and I mean it felt okay. And so it's like, okay, well, if either the clinician went too fast and your nervous system wasn't prepared, or honestly, the client didn't need it in the first place. I'm very cautious about going straight into EMDR because I don't I don't believe everybody needs it. Um, and because it's a tool, it's not for everybody. So anyway, I I digress a little bit. I just thought it was really interesting that Dr. Brown asked me about that. Okay, I take it, drink water, excuse me. So let's talk about the triphasic model. So, those of you um that are you know laymen, um, people that have been through trauma, this is gonna be a lot of information. And so, again, please be cautious with everything that we're talking about. But when you are um interviewing clinicians, if they say, Well, I'm trauma-informed, ask them, can you explain what trauma-informed is to you? And if they just keep saying the word trauma, well, because if it's a trauma, I have to keep you safe. If they if they really can't explain this, they are not trauma-informed. They're just using the buzzword to get more clicks on their Google business profile. Sorry, I know that sounds mean, um, but it's the truth. So the triphasic model is based on safety, remembrance, and mourning and reconnection. Okay, so this is the roadmap. It's not a suggestion, it really is a roadmap, and it's a sequence um that protects the survivor. And what I'll say is you don't stay in one stage only. In fact, what we have seen through trauma work is we often go back and forth, particularly to stage one. So, stage one is safety, okay? You cannot do deep trauma work until you are safe physically, emotionally, and relation relationally, okay. And again, those survivors out there, if your nervous system is constantly on high alert, it's gonna take a lot longer for your nervous system. You're gonna think, you're like, for example, I've worked with a lot of cops and they're like, no, I got this. I'm I'm totally safe. Like, you know, they they've had to put on that armor. So when they come in, they think that the armor is going to allow them to just jump in and process what happened. Um, like a foot pursuit, um, you know, almost losing their life, whatever it is. Um, but what's interesting is they find that their nervous system is like, screw you, man, I'm not talking to this chick. And it takes a lot longer. It takes a lot longer for them to do that deep trauma work because their nervous system is saying, I'm not, I'm not doing this. So in Herman's book, which I have right here, I want to read something. It's on um page 2409. She writes, Without freedom, there can be no safety or recovery. But freedom is often achieved at a great cost. Please listen to this. In order to gain their freedom, survivors may have to give up almost everything else. Rarely are the dimensions of this sacrifice fully recognized. Okay. When I read that line, it stopped me cold because safety isn't just locking your door. Okay. So for many people, it means leaving a relationship, a family, a job, a church, a community, an identity. It can mean financial instability, losing friends, or starting over. And uh what people need to understand, clinicians need to understand, if you rush too fast into these trauma narratives, they have to give up everything that their brain has perceived as keeping them safe just to talk to you. So uh practice some patience. You should sit in stage one for a very long time. You really sure should. Herman shows us that uh real safety requires freedom, number one, from the perpetrator's control. That's huge. Whether that perpetrator is a person, um, a system, or trauma responses that are still very alive in them. So this is why so many, you know, clinicians clinicians who say that they're trauma-informed are still really causing harm. Because they skip try right to the processing, right? The processing of memories, and the survivor doesn't have safety and freedom yet, right? So that is not caring. You are re-traumatizing that individual. So for those of you that have been through therapist after therapist after therapist and it just hurts, I'm sorry. And for those um clients that have seen me over the years, when I was a younger clinician, I know I caused you harm. And I'm really sorry because I hadn't learned the education aspect of things like I know it today. Stage one is absolutely key. So when I was talking to Dr. Page um this last week, we're discussing about how long individuals need in stage one, and it is different for every single person. Um, she and I are both Italian women, and so we always tease that we're very authentic. And my husband tells everybody that I'm as subtle as a car bomb, but actually works well in stage one because my clients know from the get-go who I am. From the get-go, I had a client the other day who didn't want to call me when there was something that came up, and they stated that they were afraid that I was going to like tell them that they were wrong. And that hurt my feelings. Well, not my feelings, I hurt my heart for the client because it was like, nah, I'm not gonna tell you what you did wrong. What I want you to do is call me because I am the safe place. Like, I need I need your brain and your nervous system to say, hey, I trust Piper. And so we talked through that, that there's no judgment in here. Whatever you tell me, there's no judgment. Now, it might get to the point where I'm like, okay, we need to call we have need to have a conversation about some of these risk factors that come with trauma, which we can see a lot of times it's alcohol and drug abuse, we can see um risky behaviors, um, we can see irritability, that sort of thing. So I have to discuss this with you, but understand that there's no judgment in that. And again, this individual, when they told me they were afraid to call me, is very young in our time together. I think we're only like five sessions in. So we are still solidly in stage one. It takes, it takes a lot of time for people to feel safe here. Okay. So, again, for those listening that have been through this and trying to find a trauma clinician, if your clinician goes smack dab right into it, let's talk about your trauma. Um, I really suggest that you say thank you for your time. I need to find somebody else. Um, okay, so let's go into stage two so you understand all the stages of this triphasic model. Stage two is remembrance and mourning. So this is the meat, okay. This is the meat. Only, only, only after safety is solid do we move into this hard and very sacred work of telling the story. Both the facts and the feelings, okay? So this is where survivors really face existential questions. So um, Herman describes this beautifully. She says, why and why me? You know, so the therapist really becomes a theologian, a philosopher, and a jurist all at one, trying to make meaning out of something that shattered this poor human's worldview. Right? And so does this client. Like they're having to embrace theologian, philosopher, jurist, and and making sense of like this why me, why me, you know, shattering their worldview. Oftentimes, those that have the complex history or in fields like um first responders, you know, our veterans, combat, um, even our healthcare workers, they don't even ask why or why me anymore. They almost just like put it away, right? They just kind of shove it away, which can make it a little bit more difficult too. So, what's really important for stage two is this is the therapist's job here to be very compassionate witness. Okay. We're not, as Herman says, we're not there to necessarily um be a detective hunting for proof. And we're not a magician trying to erase the memory. The whole goal of of the stage two is integration. And what Herman says, not exorcism. Um, the story, it it doesn't disappear. And what it becomes is a part of way um that no, it's a part of you that no longer and this is what I tell people all the time. Um, that this is the part that um you know it it's just not gone. I people come in and say, Well, I want to take and I want to do EMDR, I want to do EMDR. I'm like, this is not a magic wand. This is gonna be very, very difficult. The other thing I want to say is when you're going into trauma processing, those of you that are seeking for a counselor, a trauma-informed clinician, when you're going into trauma processing, the clinician should always make it clear that you are in control. If at any moment you feel out of control, too afraid, um, you can stop the session. They should have tools to help you work through that, whether it's breathing, whether it's um, I have um warheads in my office to help with that real intense emotionality that comes with this. Um, your clinician must have those tools. Like I said, I have warheads, I have lifesavers, I have a cold um, what do you call it? Ice pack, I have a weighted blanket. I mean, I have the tools of like, okay, let's do our relaxation exercises. I might have them get on the floor and relax their psoas. The psoas is that giant muscle in the core, um, we call it the trauma muscle. Um, so your clinician needs to have those tools. If they're just simply sitting there nodding their head and saying, like, tell me more, um that could be even more um traumatic for you. So even though your brain is constantly scanning for danger, it doesn't mean it's always wrong, if that makes sense. Okay. So the whole goal again for um stage two is the integration part. Now, stage three, this is reconnection. So finally, after seeking safety, which you can sit there forever, and then the morning, right? The morning area, the the remembrance comes reconnection. And so that's where we're rebuilding a life, um, relationships and a sense of self that's no longer defined by the trauma. So this is where post-traumatic growth comes in, actually. And I love post-traumatic growth, but only, only, only if the first two stages are done right. Now, what's really fascinating that all of us that are in the field that see this is we can see this enormous growth. They go through integration and they do have this really great reconnection period where you see them rebuilding life, making really hard decisions, and then whoop back to safety they go. And again, that's okay. This is not always linear. We're kind of hopping through the different stages. The clinician needs to understand. Sometimes we titrate um stage two, because again, we still have to be understanding of what's taking place in the brain, what's taking place place in that nervous system. So we kind of there's this um ebb and flow of narration. There really is. Can we we can go in, we can go out. It is titrated. It's um, I don't know how to explain it. It's it's um a pretty oh gosh, how do I put this into words? It's um an incredible experience as the clinician to be part of. It is a sacred, sacred process. I have so many times in this that stage two where we go in and we come out, and we go in and we come out. Like we have to be, we always touch back to safety. And the same thing can happen in stage three. There is nothing wrong with the individual going, okay, this is a magnificent. Like they've done the integration, they've done the narration, they start rebuilding a life, but then oh my gosh, oh my gosh, I'm building a new life. I don't even know what this new life is, and they have to pop back to stage one. So that's very, very common for those of you that are going through trauma treatment or you're seeking it. There is nothing wrong with you. There's nothing, you're not broken. It is very common for us to start building these new lives and have this sense of hope and this sense of meaning. And then all of a sudden the nervous system is like, oh no, and it senses danger and it needs the safety. Your clinician, your clinician should understand, and I pray they understand, the sacred work of bringing you back to safety. And there's nothing wrong with you, okay? So, why does this matter so much, especially for clinicians? Okay. Because trauma-informed has become a buzzword. And frankly, between Dr. Page and I and many others, it's starting to piss me off that so many people are using trauma-informed. It's like agencies and therapists or even yoga teachers. My gosh, I saw a yoga teacher the other time. She said she did trauma-informed yoga and coaching. And I went to her website and I'm like, you're freaking yoga teacher. You don't know anything. She had no education. I was so pissed that you're just slapping this on your website and on your Google business. And I'm like, you are going to hurt someone. And I'm sure they have. Um, so without this kind of triphasic sequence and understanding what's happening, not just in what happened, but what's taking place in the brain and the body, it's just window dressing. You're just slapping it on there thinking that it's going to get, you know, clients and patients in your door. And it it really sickens me. Research and clinical guidelines from the International Society of Study of Um Trauma and Disassociation and the experts like Christine Crithois and Julian Ford, and again, I love my Dr. Page, repeatedly show that attempting to process traumatic memories, whether it's yoga or your freaking life coach, before safety and destabilization is in place, actually increases, increases dropout rates, worsens their symptoms, and you will absolutely re-traumatize people. So, clinicians, coaches, yoga instructors, please listen. Stop slapping this damn word on everything. And see, I'm gonna get on my soapbox. It makes me so angry. If you don't understand that this triphasic model protects the survivor's nervous system, then stay the hell out of trauma work. It respects the reality that trauma changes the brain and the body. You can't just say it changes it. You need to understand why. And it also gives both it gives both survivors and helpers a very clear path instead of guesswork. That's why it is so important why I'm talking about this triphasic model and these really um wonderful conversations this past week. It it's just we've got to start talking about this. So again, as I'm reading um Herman's work, I keep coming back to a lot of my margin notes. I love writing a book. My husband hates it. He always buys two different books because he doesn't like writing a book. So if we're supposed to read a book together or something, he buys me my own because I have to mark it up. But on one page, I wrote, ugh, like reading this hurts because it's true. It's true. So much of the book is so painful because one, I sit with the the individuals that Herman discusses in there. Um, and it hurts because I know there's so many people out there. I I I think they mean the best by saying trauma-informed, but they don't understand what they're causing, you know, and and so it's hard. It hurts sometimes, and it's true. But then on the other hand, I'm like, okay, you know, like uh I need to be cautious. I need to be cautious about this because I can't let it hurt too much. So I have to understand, and this is important for clinicians as well, that we have to distance ourselves. This is not my story, this is their story. Okay. This is not my story, this is their story. That's another really important part of a trauma clinician. I mentor a lot of students, and a lot of them say, I want to do trauma work. And then I start talking to them. I'm like, uh, nope. You need to do your trauma work because you are going to work that out in the middle of session. And listen, I'm not to say that I have never had an experience in trauma in a trauma processing where I'm like, whoo, and I have. I have had experiences where I Definitely feel myself kind of phasing out. And I recognize this, and I'm like, oh shoot, nervous system is saying this is too much. And I have to sit there and do my own grounding while the individual is processing. It's very normal. The brain is trying to protect us. But you have to be very aware that even though some of these things hurt, we have to be cautious at the same time, right? Because there's something called vicarious trauma. So as a trauma clinician, what Dr. Page taught me six years ago is you cannot do just this work. You have to expand and do other things. That's why I'm talking to John Hansen about speaking engagements. That's why I'm talking to Dr. Brown about maybe I can help out over the Shepherd Center. It's sacred and difficult work. It is. So I want to say is that these pages of this book and what I'm doing, they are not abstract theory to me. And I really suspect that they won't be for um many of you either. Okay. So what now? Um the series that I'm going to be continuing through and walking through is each phase in depth. So we just kind of went into the first phase, the all three phases, but we're really going to go into depth. And I'm going to use some of the highlighted pages in Herman's book as anchors. And we'll also bring in some somatic work, which is incredibly important in the safety area. And stage one, we're going to talk about modern neuroscience, which is also spectacular for what we've learned about trauma. We're also going to talk about cultural perspectives, which is really interesting that I see, again, because I'm measurement-based care, I see a lot of that. And I'm going to provide practical tools that you can use. Okay. So next episode, we're going to go deep into stage one. So safety. And that is safety, which is freedom at what cost. So we're going to use page 249. So clinicians, if you have the book, as a really powerful page to kind of anchor this. And we'll talk about what safety really looks like in real life. And that the work we do, this it it the sacrifice is demanded. And what does that sacrifice look like? How does that affect the client? How does that affect a clinician? And how to know when the client is ready to move forward. So it's we're really gonna kind of park it. Me and uh Dr. Page were talking about that. We're gonna park it in in stage one pretty pretty firmly so that listeners understand um, you know, how important this model is. So again, if you are seeking treatment, this this series should give you some power and education to say to the clinician, well, you say you're trauma-informed, can you tell me how you work through trauma? Um, what do you call trauma? What how what particular tools do you use? Um, heck, use AI if you need help to understand what their response is. But if they're kind of jumping all over the place, you should be really aware that this person probably doesn't know what they're doing. So before we end today, here is a question I would like you to journal or to sit with. And yes, journaling, so many, especially my guys, so many of my guys don't want to do journaling. And I have to explain to them, hey, the brain actually does really well with journaling. It doesn't have to be, you know, rainbows and unicorns. But I want you to sit with this question or journal it, put it in your phone, whatever I want to do. Where are you in the tri-phasic journey right now? Safety, remembrance, or reconnection? Okay. Ask yourself, what stage are you in? Clinicians. What stage of the triphasic model do you need to better understand? Safety, remembrance, or reconnection? And what is one small thing that would help you feel even a little safer today, individual that's listening? And clinician. What is one small thing that could allow your client to feel even safer today? It's probably a little bit more education. So you don't have to do this alone. Um, again, thank you for being with me. I'm so incredibly passionate about this. I am blessed, blessed, blessed to um work with the individuals um that choose me to work through this. I recognize that this is um sacred work. I really, really do. I really do. Uh, please don't forget that there are some um resources in the show notes. You can also find uh crisis resources on my website, untangledmind.net. Under resources, there's national and georgres to keep you safe. Keep you safe. Um, and if you're a clinician looking for triphasic training, you can look into the International Society for Traumatic Stress Studies. Um, or you could look at trainings by the Trauma Center at JRI. Um, so make sure that you are staying up on all of your studies. So thank you for being here, and I will look forward to speaking to you next time. That brings us to the end of this episode. Thanks for joining me. I hope you learned some tools that can equip you to untangle your mind and untangle your life. If you're curious about working with me for your anxiety or trauma, head on over to my website at untangledmind.net to connect with me. If you enjoyed the show, please rate and review me on your podcast listening platform and share it with your friends and family. As always, thanks so much for listening to me, Piper Harris with the Untangled Mind Podcast. I'll talk with you next time.